R

Redbone

Audioholic
I am looking for a sub that provides the tightest musical bass for around $500. I am not into having a small beer fridge in my den so the SVS is out. I have been looking at the Outlaw sub, the Paradigm PSW2200, PSB 5i and the Pinnacle baby boomer as well as the M&K V-76 mkII.

I am very interested in the PSB as it is smaller and seems to play very tight, though I have not and don't think I will have a chance to hear it.

Any suggestions would be helpful-
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
Check out Yamaha YST SW 315/800/1500, as tight as it gets and also check out Rel.
 
JoeE SP9

JoeE SP9

Senior Audioholic
Sub

Check out the Hsu Research VTF-2 Mk2. Only $499 and very well reviewed.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
If you really want the highest quality bass, the best solution for any subwoofer is to have a flexibixle parametric equalizer to optimize frequency response, especially where room resonances effect the bass. A pwerful parametric equalizer that can be used for bass use is only a touch over $100:

http://www.music123.com/Behringer-Feedback-Destroyer-Pro-DSP1124-i43290.music

Make a frequency response plot of the room, then apply notch filters to optimally cancel the resonant peaks at the intended seating position.

-Chris

Redbone said:
I am looking for a sub that provides the tightest musical bass for around $500. I am not into having a small beer fridge in my den so the SVS is out. I have been looking at the Outlaw sub, the Paradigm PSW2200, PSB 5i and the Pinnacle baby boomer as well as the M&K V-76 mkII.

I am very interested in the PSB as it is smaller and seems to play very tight, though I have not and don't think I will have a chance to hear it.

Any suggestions would be helpful-
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
WmAx said:
If you really want the highest quality bass, the best solution for any subwoofer is to have a flexibixle parametric equalizer to optimize frequency response, especially where room resonances effect the bass. A pwerful parametric equalizer that can be used for bass use is only a touch over $100:

http://www.music123.com/Behringer-Feedback-Destroyer-Pro-DSP1124-i43290.music

Make a frequency response plot of the room, then apply notch filters to optimally cancel the resonant peaks at the intended seating position.

-Chris
UFW-10 has built in 3 band Parametric EQ. Sealed enclosure and very light fast cone. Is a little over $500 at $599 but can't be beat in it's price range for speed.

Plus if you don't like it just return it within 30 day's and only pay the ~$15 shipping.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Unregistered said:
UFW-10 has built in 3 band Parametric EQ. Sealed enclosure and very light fast cone. Is a little over $500 at $599 but can't be beat in it's price range for speed.

Plus if you don't like it just return it within 30 day's and only pay the ~$15 shipping.
INteresting, that is has a built in PEQ. Very useful, indeed. :)

But as for 'fast' cone, that is just marketing blabber. :)

-Chris
 
J

joelincoln

Junior Audioholic
I have the 2200. Very powerful unit. Plenty of bass. I have my unit's volume control turned down to about 50% because it is too overpowering otherwise. It also works seemlessly with my Paradigm Studios.

Good stuff.
 
R

Redbone

Audioholic
That sounds great all those great suggestions, although one sub keeps coming up and I just can't seem to shake it and that is the Rocket UFW-10. I am also quite interested in REL Quake- am I to believe that REL can deliver rock solid bass as well as SPL as I have heard from so many??

I am also very intrigued by MJ Acoustics subs but cannot get my hands on them in the USA. Any one know where I can get one from a dealer who ships us spec?
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
The Adire Rava would also be an excellent choice. You can get one for $400 direct + shipping, and maybe still have enough left over for a Behringer EQ. I wholeheartedly agree with WmAX that parametric EQ is essential for getting the best results (and I'd add room treatment, too). Behringer makes a very flexible electronic one and a 5 band parametric EQ that's around $80. IMO, though, it's worth the extra for the DSP1124.

Particulary nice is the ability to store several EQ curves. This allows you to either keep different curves for different purposes (one for late night listening with a little more bottom end, one for HT, etc) or to keep a preset as a baseline while using another to tweak it without fear of messing things up (if the new curve is worse you don't have to try to reverse the changes).
 
R

Redbone

Audioholic
Thats interesting but I am not familiar with these as most audio video stores and home theatres don't suggest the use of a parametric eq. Which one would you recommend to someone on a tight budget??

I am looking for the products you suggested but cannot find them?
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
Good chance they must not sell them, then. ;) Stores have an understandable habit of warning people off of stuff they don't sell. I'd be really leery of anyone who claims that parametric EQ shouldn't be applied to subwoofers. On the other hand, a lot of people don't think EQ should be applied to the rest of the signal. At any rate, you'd only actually apply the EQ to the low pass feeding the sub (ie everything lower than 80hz or whatever x-over point you're using).

I use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer, model # DSP-1124P. It can be found at a variety of online dealers; seems like I bought mine from Lentine's Music , but I've had it for quite awhile. It has a lot of pro audio functions, but all you'll want to use is the parametric EQ features. One downside- this unit is a bit complex to set up until you get the hang of it, and the manual is not helpful. There're a couple of really good online tutorials posted by 3rd parties that will save you a lot of grief. Also, it has only TRS (tip ring sleeve) and XLR inputs/outputs, so you'll either need cables with an RCA plug on one end and TRS or XLR on the other or an adapter. Both are fairly cheap- you can get an adapter here.

The next model down in Behringers' line is simpler to configure ( the ULTRA-Q® PRO PEQ2200) but not as flexible. It only has 5 bands and no electronic memory, but it will do. You're unlikely to need more than 5 bands to EQ your sub, anyway. Each channel will interact somewhat with the others, and it would take a novice forever to try to wrangle more than that. Be sure to use it only to cut, not to boost.

There's a lot of sophisticated test gear available, but you can do a pretty good job with a Rat Shack SPL meter and a disc of test tones. I like the Rives CD as it has tones calibrated for the known deviations from flat of the Rat Shack meter.
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
As an alternative, Infinity makes subs with a system they call ROBAS that does all this EQ stuff pretty much automatically. I've never heard one of these subs, but the reviews & test results look good. They're a little more expensive, but not out of your range, I think.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Rob Babcock said:
As an alternative, Infinity makes subs with a system they call ROBAS that does all this EQ stuff pretty much automatically. I've never heard one of these subs, but the reviews & test results look good. They're a little more expensive, but not out of your range, I think.
I just saw a review in HT magazine I think about the Infinity subs with ROBAS, it's in the most recent issue I think, or perhaps the issue before it.

Mark L. Schifter is coming out with 'R-DES' which is a subwoofer correction system, using a hardware and software combo that can store over a thousand curves. It will be able to function with any subwoofer out there as well. Though no news on an exact release date.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Unregistered said:
and very light fast cone. .
Fast? What is that? you mean 25Hz or 60Hz is fast for a sub? I wonder what a tweeter is then, hypersonic speed? ;)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Redbone said:
I am looking for a sub that provides the tightest musical bass for around $500. I am not into having a small beer fridge in my den so the SVS is out. I have been looking at the Outlaw sub, the Paradigm PSW2200, PSB 5i and the Pinnacle baby boomer as well as the M&K V-76 mkII.

I am very interested in the PSB as it is smaller and seems to play very tight, though I have not and don't think I will have a chance to hear it.

Any suggestions would be helpful-
Tom Nousaine reviewed 10 subs in the Sep 2003 issue of Sound & Vision. Your PSB is in there too. This may be available on line or at your local library?
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
mtrycrafts said:
Fast? What is that? you mean 25Hz or 60Hz is fast for a sub? I wonder what a tweeter is then, hypersonic speed? ;)

A subwoofer's cone actually does travel quite fast. Look at the distance traveled, and the speed (velocity) necessary to do that 20 to 60 times a second. A tweeter barely covers any traveled distance and does not have much velocity.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
annunaki said:
A subwoofer's cone actually does travel quite fast. Look at the distance traveled, and the speed (velocity) necessary to do that 20 to 60 times a second. A tweeter barely covers any traveled distance and does not have much velocity.
Well, their are two 'types' of speed here, in a sense, and another issues(acelleration) that is not really relevant to maximum 'speed'. (A) Speed - one 'sort of' definition I see referenced above: average rate of speed(distance/time travled rate) of 1 full cycle of frequency sine wave and gretest distance elapsed(incursion/excursion) within that time. It's really just an average of speed. The other parameter is maximum velocity obtainaable -- raw speed(this does not consider the time required to reach that speed). (B) Acceleration - a potential distance/time rate of a one way maximum accleration gradient(which then excrusion/incursion and total path length is not relevant) that does not account for the conditions of A. B relates to the acoustical transient response directly, in which case refer to [1].

[1]Frequency/impulse response plot will suffice to ascertain the actual transient response/acceleration as is the subject here. The impulse plot will graphically reveal the incapability of the subwoofer to sufficiently react to the higher freqeuncy stimulus of which the tweeter reacts sufficiently.

-Chris
 
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