Thoughts on Ceiling treatment

[Buckeye_Nut]

The issue I have is the ductwork that hangs below the level of the rest of my ceiling. The low hanging ductwork surface parallel to the floor is my primary source for both light and acoustic ceiling reflections. The ductwork is 4' wide and runs the length of the room. My entire ceiling visibly vanishes during movie time except for that stinking 4' wide low overhang By treating the ductwork, the entire ceiling will completely vanish during movies, and I'll get better sound as a result

I was thinking about either a 1" or 2" thick foam application because I want something as lightweight as possible. I'd also like to avoid nailing through or gluing the ductwork if at all possible because I don't want to make a complete mess of the ceiling for whenever I move. I was thinking about maybe a Heavy duty 2-sided tape to secure a lightweight foam? I was thinking about covering an entire section 4'x10'+ (give or take) in front of the direct viewing area.

View attachment 4862

I prefer BLACK foam if possible, but I cant seem to find any. I suppose a dark gray or charcoal will suffice if I must.

This "Mini Anechoic Wedge - Charcoal" is one several I have looked at that interests me.
http://www.silentsource.com/afoams-hushfoam.html
I'm considering 1" foam because the overhang is already low & for weight reasons, but I will also consider 2" foam.

What's the reputation of silentsource foam? Any advice or alternative suggestions? Is 1" foam to thin to provide any real acoustic benefits?

 

[abefroeman]

I dunno, but that it is a serious DVD collection.

 

[MDS]

The SilentSource foam looks about the same as every other brand. I don't know if there is a major difference between the wedge, pyramid, and egg crate type foam tiles but PartsExpress offers all of the same designs for a lot less.

I paid $50 for a set of 16 12x12, 2" wedge acoustic tiles.

 

[bpape]

1" foam - even the decent stuff (Auralex) - will only do much above say 500Hz leaving much of the vocal range untouched. 1" 703 would be better down into the 250 range but still not great.

If the surface is smooth on the ducting, you might be able to get the tape off without too much damage - hard to say. Personally, I'd build a frame, fill it with 703 and cover with black GOM or muslin. You could rig up some industrial velcro on the back of the frame and at just a few places along the way on the ducting to hold it up. The corners of that ducting will be wood anyway with drywall over the top. Nothing a quick spackle job wouldn't fix.

Bryan

 

[Johnd]

1" foam - even the decent stuff (Auralex) - will only do much above say 500Hz leaving much of the vocal range untouched. 1" 703 would be better down into the 250 range but still not great.

If the surface is smooth on the ducting, you might be able to get the tape off without too much damage - hard to say. Personally, I'd build a frame, fill it with 703 and cover with black GOM or muslin. You could rig up some industrial velcro on the back of the frame and at just a few places along the way on the ducting to hold it up. The corners of that ducting will be wood anyway with drywall over the top. Nothing a quick spackle job wouldn't fix.

Bryan

Bryan: Why would he do that if he can take MDS's solution of simply adhering 2" foam directly to the ductwork? The latter seems so much simpler.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

PartsExpress offers all of the same designs for a lot less.

I paid $50 for a set of 16 12x12, 2" wedge acoustic tiles.

MDS,
Yes, I saw those, and thank you for the suggestion!! Because I'm trying to cover a ceiling space of around 4'x10'+, I'd have to glue/tape a whole bunch of those puppies up there.

That's why I'm searching for treatments with dimensions a little larger than 12"x12". On the other hand, the lightweight of smaller panels is also a plus, but it might look better to have fewer larger tiles because of how I intend to cover my ductwork.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

1" foam - even the decent stuff (Auralex) - will only do much above say 500Hz leaving much of the vocal range untouched. 1" 703 would be better down into the 250 range but still not great.

If the surface is smooth on the ducting, you might be able to get the tape off without too much damage - hard to say. Personally, I'd build a frame, fill it with 703 and cover with black GOM or muslin. You could rig up some industrial velcro on the back of the frame and at just a few places along the way on the ducting to hold it up. The corners of that ducting will be wood anyway with drywall over the top. Nothing a quick spackle job wouldn't fix.

Bryan

Bryan,
Thanks for the response.

Unfortunately, my ceiling is a rough textured popcorn finish. I hate that stuff!! I figure I'll smooth it off a bit with a towel at the taping points and see if tape will hold securely enough to hold foam panels. I'm not sure what kinds of double-sided tapes are out there, but it's gonna' have to be something really sticky!! A nice wide roll of Double-sided duct tape maybe? I'm not so much worried about tape as I am glue....because glue will never come off!! I'll probably need a shovel & hammer to scrape off the panels if they're glued

I'm not interested in a DIY project that goes beyond more than taping or gluing something to to the ceiling. To me......taping something to the ceiling is in itself a DIY project hahahaha

If you think 1" foam wont provide enough real & perceived acoustic benefits, I'll stick to looking at 2" foam. I was thinking that five 24"x48" foam panels side-by-side on the bottom side of the ductwork will do nicely. (the ductwork channel is exactly 48" wide) Just enough to completely cover the bottom side directly in front of the primary viewing area. One thing I do know and that stretch of ceiling is horribly reflective both visually and acoustically.

What are your opinions on the amount of ceiling coverage I am planning?

MDS brings up an excellent question!! Does the foam pattern really matter (wedges, triangle shapes, egg carton shapes)???? For my purposes, isnt it really just about which look I prefer? I can't imagine any any real difference between them, is there?

 

[MDS]

I'd probably use the little double-sided adhesive strips from 3M. They come in 1" squares as well as strips you can cut to size. I bought a package of the squares to use for my acoustic tiles but haven't actually used them yet.

They should be easy to remove if necessary and a little Goof-Off will take off any remaining residue.

 

[bpape]

Then 2" foam it is. The reason I resist it is that the MAX thickness for 2" wedge foam is 2". The bottoms of the ridges are barely 1". Better than nothing though.

Bryan

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I'd probably use the little double-sided adhesive strips from 3M. They come in 1" squares as well as strips you can cut to size. I bought a package of the squares to use for my acoustic tiles but haven't actually used them yet.

They should be easy to remove if necessary and a little Goof-Off will take off any remaining residue.

That's a fantastic Idea I never thought of that stuff. Those 3M sticky pads (what I call them...LOL) should work rather well. Writing things out is helping me decide how I want to go about this little ceiling project.

I probably wont need as many panels as I originally thought to serve both light & acoustic absorption purposes. After taking a few measurements and taking a serious look at things last night, I'll probably go with four 2'x4'x2" foam panels. (a slim chance I might only get 3) I also discovered the ductwork is 56" and not 48". I thought I measured it before, but apparently not!! It's irrelevant to my treatment plans.

Bryan,
I realize foam probably isn't best material possible, but I want something super-light & simple that I can easily stick up on the ceiling with little effort. It's too bad GIK doesn't also sell foam because I'd already have them ordered by now. Auralex does a a lousy job at returning messages within a reasonable amount of time, and their website has no shopping cart where you can simply click and order. The last time I was going through this treatment process, it took a complaint on this forum to get a response thanks to MOD intervention. (he apparently had a contact there) By the time Auralex responded to my initial treatment evaluation request....... 3 weeks had passed, and I already had 10 GIK panels hanging in my HT room. LOL

 

[bpape]

Well, I guess I'm glad you had a problem with their customer service? However, their foam IMO is the best foam product out there and there are many other places online that you can order it directly online.

We don't do foam because in our opinion, it just isn't an effective solution for the money or wall space taken up. In your case, it seems to be the option that you're going with due to many other considerations. I wish you luck.

Bryan

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

This time around, I thankfully received a quick reply from Auralex. Apparently........using the
"point & click" shopping method for Auralex products is a little difficult. You pretty much have to perform a dealer search and find a retail store close to you. Lucky for me, "The Guitar Center" is a dealer with a retail location only 10 minutes from me. They had exactly what I wanted in stock, and I picked up four of the 2" 2'x4' Auralex charcoal panels for $26.99 each.(cheaper than expected) Imagine that.... going out to shop

I'm going to try to get them hung before the end of today. Getting them on the ceiling and getting them straight might be easier as a 2 person job.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I was able to hang my panels on the ceiling yesterday. Ugghhhh.... what a pain that job was. For me, even the most simple jobs turn into a pain in the kiester.

Firstly.... I tried double sided tape which was a complete and utter failure. Tape wanted nothing to do with sticking to my ceiling!! Then it was off to Lowes for a second time(one trip is never enough if I'm working on something), and I bought a tube of "Liquid Nail" adhesive which was also a complete failure. The panels are flimsy, and it was impossible for me to eliminate all the sags & hold them in securely place long enough to make them stick. So now I have glue on my ceiling, and nothing to show for it Finally, I nailed those suckers(panels) up. It took a bunch of tiny nails to eliminate all the sags, but I was able to finally get them up there nice and flat, and the nails are completely invisible. I told my kids if they play with, touch, or do anything to the panels....they're dead. If someone was to pull on the panels with any force, the nails will pull right through the foam.

Visually............ they've made a drastic improvement. That portion of ceiling was very light reflective and annoying to me. With my darkened walls, the entire room melts away in the dark, but I always had an issue with that stretch of ceiling. With the panels, the ceiling completely vanishes and now I can watch movies in true darkness

Acoustically..... I have yet to give them an adequate test. I'm planning to watch "The Last Mimzy" with the kiddies tonight at appropriate SPL levels, so I should know more before the day is done. I hear that movie has an excellent soundtrack.

I'll post a few pictures later this afternoon.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

As promised...

The first photo was taken in natural light to convey how the room really looks and feels in person. Using a flash has a way of making a room look totally different than what you see with your own eyes. How could I NOT toss in a gratuitous 300 screen shot? LOL
View attachment 4900

The 2nd photo is a side perspective to show how the ductwork, treatments, and positioning all fit into the grand scheme of things. It doesn't look like it, but the area treated measures 8'Wide x 4'Deep. Unfortunately, I forgot to turn off the flash so I don't have a nautural light views from the side
View attachment 4901