The Crown XLS DriveCore Thread

C

cubazuelen

Enthusiast
I think I blew my crown xls2500 last night! I noticed that the imaging was a bit off while listening and went to check the gains, sure enough one was at about 75% instead of the usual 100%. When I turned it up a very high frequency came through the amp along with the source material. Now with the 2500 on this noise will start up, along with the thermal red LED next to the right gain(the channel I turned up). After a few seconds the fan will kick on(which has never happened before), the high pitch noise ceases and all the LED's next to the left gain will blink along with the single red one on the right gain. Then after a few seconds the fan stops and it runs the same as before, high pitch noise along with just the right red LED. I let it cycle between these two 8 times.

I use this amp to run a pair of magnepan 1.6's. It is plugged into its own outlet and is sending a full signal to both speakers. This happened after sunset but it does get some direct sun during the day. I was not running it too loud, in fact I have played the same source material that this happened with at higher volumes in the past. I find it hard to believe that I could blow this amp running my 1.6's. Any idea what happened or if there is some way I could maybe reset the amp? Thanks!
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I think I blew my crown xls2500 last night! I noticed that the imaging was a bit off while listening and went to check the gains, sure enough one was at about 75% instead of the usual 100%. When I turned it up a very high frequency came through the amp along with the source material. Now with the 2500 on this noise will start up, along with the thermal red LED next to the right gain(the channel I turned up). After a few seconds the fan will kick on(which has never happened before), the high pitch noise ceases and all the LED's next to the left gain will blink along with the single red one on the right gain. Then after a few seconds the fan stops and it runs the same as before, high pitch noise along with just the right red LED. I let it cycle between these two 8 times.

I use this amp to run a pair of magnepan 1.6's. It is plugged into its own outlet and is sending a full signal to both speakers. This happened after sunset but it does get some direct sun during the day. I was not running it too loud, in fact I have played the same source material that this happened with at higher volumes in the past. I find it hard to believe that I could blow this amp running my 1.6's. Any idea what happened or if there is some way I could maybe reset the amp? Thanks!
Crown has a 3 year no fault warranty on this amp I believe. Stuff breaks. I've seen $5K Parasounds go poof in 6 months.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Sounds like a bad luck malfunction. Did you buy it new?
 
C

cubazuelen

Enthusiast
Just got off the phone with Crown, the guy I spoke with had never heard of anything like this, said to send it in which I will do later today. He also told me that the failure rate of these is about 1 in 700, so it appears to be really bad luck.

I bought it used, but if it was made in the last 3 years I will still be fully covered.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Just got off the phone with Crown, the guy I spoke with had never heard of anything like this, said to send it in which I will do later today. He also told me that the failure rate of these is about 1 in 700, so it appears to be really bad luck.

I bought it used, but if it was made in the last 3 years I will still be fully covered.
It's good to know that Crown stands behind the product. I also believe his 1 in 700 failure rate, heck if anything that seems a bit higher than I would have guessed.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Do you mean higher as in it's failure prone?
I mean I expected something like 1 in 1000 failures or better. So if they say 1 in 700, then I have no reason to doubt that number.

For comparison, in my industry the goal is 0.3 defects per million opportunities.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Is .0014% a high failure rate? You guys make amps in your industry?
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
First off.....fuzzy math on your part :D 1/700 = a failure rate of 0.14% not 0.0014%. All I'm saying is that if I were to have made a guess before I saw the 1/700 figure, then my guess would have been 1/1000. Especially for the Crown amps that are built for travel and regular "abuse".

Nope, I work at a semiconductor / IC manufacturing plant, the only amps we would make would be op-amps.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
First off.....fuzzy math on your part :D 1/700 = a failure rate of 0.14% not 0.0014%. All I'm saying is that if I were to have made a guess before I saw the 1/700 figure, then my guess would have been 1/1000. Especially for the Crown amps that are built for travel and regular "abuse".

Nope, I work at a semiconductor / IC manufacturing plant, the only amps we would make would be op-amps.
Did somebody call me? :p
 
J

jcunwired

Audioholic
I wouldn't place a great deal of credence to that 1 in 700 number. Front line tech support is not normally apprised of trends, nor from marketing and communications standpoint are they typically leveraged to share failure rate. If I had to guess, his comment was a shoot from the hip effort to incorporate a bit of transparency in your relationship with them.
 
M

Mazza

Audiophyte
Hi there,
I have an XLS 2500 driving a pair of Hivi SP10 subs (with a CSS APR12 per enclosure) and I wanted to respond directly to your questions for anyone contemplating one of these amps. A little context first however; I am an audio nut but am no professional. All I have is my ears and years of tinkering. I have an Emotiva UMC-1 pre pro running into a Rotel RMB 1095 for main, centre and surrounds. I had a Rotel RB 1092 (1000x2 into 4 ohms) for my subs. I replaced the RB 1092 with the XLS after reading a review at Andrew Robinson Online and was intrigued about what impact a professional amp would have on my home made subs performance.

So my answers are as follows:
1) If you have them on a signal-sensing power strip, did that cause them to be noisy?
I have a power strip that switches my system when the UMC-1 switches and it causes no noise in my system including the Crown.

2) Have you ever heard the fans come on from the listening position?
No. The fan (there is only one in the box) is not operational when the unit is cold. After hours of running the fan is operating but it can only be heard if I put my ear right up to the front of the unit. My XLS shares a cabinet with the Rotel 1095. This is a class A/B amp and runs warm all the time. Part of the reason for trying the XLS is that in summer the Rotels have over heated on occasion in this cabinet as the cabinet has inadequate space/cooling. The RB 1092 didn't like sharing this cabinet with the 1095 and it would also over heat despite being a D class amp itself. As I have limited spousal tolerance for my hifi affliction I can't put my amps outside of this cabinet. So replacing the expensive Rotels with the more modestly priced and seemingly robust Crowns has its benefits in my lounge.

3) When the fans come on, how close do you have to be from the amp to hear them?
Very close, see answer above. Mostly I don't listen for the fans, I feel for them as they are so quiet it's impossible to hear them with any sound playing.

4) If you have one hooked up to mains, is there any hissing? If so, how close does one need to be to hear it, and how efficient are your mains?
No hissing, no noise. They are just quiet.

On the matter of gain matching I have found that the Crown is more sensitive than the RB 1092. In my system this is a good outcome. I run the gain all the way up at 10. It's my understanding that this simply means that there is zero attenuation on the input signal. Consumer amps like the Rotels don't have gain pot's; they just accept their input as it is presented by the pre-amp. Running the gain at 10 on the Crowns is actually like running it like the Rotels; ie with zero attenuation. In other words the gain control adds no additional boost to input signals, rather it simply cuts the input level at anything below 10. At 10 there is no cut applied (some professional amps I have seen actually have the end point on the pots marked as zero and the zero gain marked as negative infinity for no input signal if that makes sense). I figure this is better than adding in resistance (cutting gain) to the signal before it hits the Crowns' amps. This has no negative impact (as far as I can tell) as all my speakers (inc subs) are dead silent with no program playing.

In this way I gain a little sensitivity over the RB 1092. This is good as my subs are not as sensitive as my main, centre, surround speakers (Dynaudio's) and once I put the Crown into my system I was able to re-balance my main speaker levels up relative to my subs (previously with the 1092 running the subs my mains where -3db down in my UMC-1 setup menu for the Dyn's).

The limiters are a real boon. After installing the XLS I ran my favorite Bluray bass test passage from Tron Legacy - the passage from the entry to the grid to the end of the light cycle scene and noticed that I could readily drive the Crown into its clip region on the very loud bass sections. I have subsequently engaged the limiters and now need not worry about damaging my subs or the amp. Lord knows what kinds of clipping I must have been driving my Rotel 1092 into because without the visual indication of the clip lights you just can't tell when sub woofer amplifiers are being over driven - picking distortion from subs is not possible in my system/experience when the rest of the system is running cleanly.

Finally my cabinet has solid doors so once installed I've not seen the somewhat garish front panel lighting as it's hidden from view.

Sound quality? Well again with subs it seems somewhat hard to judge but I can say that the XLS is every bit as good as the RB 1092 which is an amp that in Australia retailed for multiples of what the Crown is priced. Heaps of clean, tight bass is what it gives and without the worry of over driving the amps into clipping.

Perhaps I'll get a second and bridge them both for 2400 watts into each of my subs..... :rolleyes:
 
M

Mountainear

Audioholic Intern
Hey, I got the Crown 1000 drivecore to power DIY Table Tuba sub, hope to be 2 subs soon. It seems to be not quite tight, I seem to hear a little extra lower or higher boomier sounds at times. I know placement at times can be problematic. I haven't done a sub crawl or moved it much, as the plans for the sub recommend it to be about 2 inches from wall on the side and mouth of sub to be 12 inches from it's wall. At any rate, does the Crown 1000 drivecore have dsp? I thought about sending it back and trying to get the Behringer Inuke 1000 dsp, just to get dsp. Or would it be worthwhile to just upgrade to the 1500 to get a better noise floor and snr? I'm not an expert at the terminology, I've just put a lot of time into the DIY table tuba sub, it appears to have great potential, just wanting get the best out of it. Thanks all for your input!
 
M

Mountainear

Audioholic Intern
Also, I wondered if adjusting the bass tone from my Marantz sr5007 av receiver might help tighten things up. There appears to be an option on the Marantz menu for Tone, but it is locked, it won't let me access it. I got the Marantz recently, still learning it some. Some have commented that the Marantz has a warm sound, I agree. It has 4 sound modes on the remote, defaults to Music. Pure option is less bassy, however, in that mode, it won't play the sub channel. Thanks all for your help!
 
M

Mountainear

Audioholic Intern
After resetting the Marantz' microprocessor, it appears my untight bass problems may be solved. When I tried to connect my son's Nexus 7 to the Marantz, it kind of froze, wouldn't connect, also wouldn't allow me to make any changes to any settings or go to a menu, at least any displayed on my HDMI TV. It wouldn't display anything other than the non-connect error code. After researching the manual on CD, it suggested when acting strange, reset processor. Did so, now the tone control is unlocked. But now, it doesn't appear to need less bass. Before the reset the bass frequencies appeared to be late, lagging behind the beat of the music. Now, not at all. I've not tested DVD movie sound, but I'd bet its a little tighter bass-wise. Before the reset, the source information would show and appeared to default to stereo/music listening mode. Now it appears to default to Auto. Apologies to Crown, it appears the Marantz receiver, or my lack of knowing how to run it, was to blame. Don't think I'm looking to get EQ or DSP now. Reset the Marantz microprocessor.... I did buy it refurbished from A4L, maybe it has needed resetting all along?
 
N

Nestor

Senior Audioholic
After resetting the Marantz' microprocessor, it appears my untight bass problems may be solved. When I tried to connect my son's Nexus 7 to the Marantz, it kind of froze, wouldn't connect, also wouldn't allow me to make any changes to any settings or go to a menu, at least any displayed on my HDMI TV. It wouldn't display anything other than the non-connect error code. After researching the manual on CD, it suggested when acting strange, reset processor. Did so, now the tone control is unlocked. But now, it doesn't appear to need less bass. Before the reset the bass frequencies appeared to be late, lagging behind the beat of the music. Now, not at all. I've not tested DVD movie sound, but I'd bet its a little tighter bass-wise. Before the reset, the source information would show and appeared to default to stereo/music listening mode. Now it appears to default to Auto. Apologies to Crown, it appears the Marantz receiver, or my lack of knowing how to run it, was to blame. Don't think I'm looking to get EQ or DSP now. Reset the Marantz microprocessor.... I did buy it refurbished from A4L, maybe it has needed resetting all along?
Must have been maddening trying to solve this issue. Resetting the Marantz might not have even been on my checklist. Glad you resolved it before making extra purchases.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Must have been maddening trying to solve this issue. Resetting the Marantz might not have even been on my checklist. Glad you resolved it before making extra purchases.
When adding new speakers and doing any troubleshooting I generally put the AVR back to factory and take if from the top. It's quick and let's me know I'm dealing with a clean slate. Just did this for a setup I did for my Sister In Law's boyfriend. First thing I did with his used Onkyo is factory reset.
 
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