The Beast and it's Lair

[jcPanny]

Wow, sounds like that stereo is worth more than your car. Who needs a HT. Just add a dvd player and LCD to your car audio setup.

 

[Tdekany]

Have you heard the Image Dynamic's IDMax??
And about the amps, if we all agree that a properly designed amp will sound the same as another properly designed amp, you could've saved yourself a large chunk of change, and gotten more power to boot, if you went with Phoenix Gold Xenon 1200.1, 200.2, & 100.4.

Man, you hear this ""arguement"" on sounddomain.com all the time.

As far as the amps, one other thing to consider is reliability. Of all the people I know that use JL amps, not one has ever had any issue. Me included.

the bottom line is (to me at least): it is his money, and he sounds like he knew what he wanted. Just respect that. m2c

 

[Francious70]

Man, you hear this ""arguement"" on sounddomain.com all the time.

As far as the amps, one other thing to consider is reliability. Of all the people I know that use JL amps, not one has ever had any issue. Me included.

the bottom line is (to me at least): it is his money, and he sounds like he knew what he wanted. Just respect that. m2c

First, lumping me in with the imbred hicks on Sounddomain is just plain disrespectful. Nobody wants to be associated with those ricers.


As for your $.02, I understand where you're coming from, but what harm am I doing by telling him about other products?? I didn't badmouth his choice of components, just telling him about other things he could have gone with.

 

[Tdekany]

but what harm am I doing by telling him about other products??

No harm's done. He already purchased the products so what good does that do for him?

 

[Sheep]

Sheep,

The camera sucks I cannot get it to do the trick.

Francious,

I did Alpine and JL for some of the following reasons.

I did the CDA-7949 because it was the best sounding deck I have ever had. It is reliable. It has a great user interface. It has a fiber-optic output. It has full Ai-net control. It has a copper plated chasis.

I did the PRA-H400s because they were the only high quality digital crossovers I could find with digital time correction and fiber-optic input. They also use dual 18 bit DACs on all channels. That and they link up perfectly with the head unit.

I did the Alpine SPX F17T three way speakers as they were one of the better designed systems available. The drivers are all Vifa/Scanspeak derivatives. I also got a killer deal on them.

I did the JL 12W7 because it is the best raw driver I have heard save the W6v2, bar none. That and it offers the same output of 2-3 decent subs.

I did the JL amplifiers as they are some of the best designed amplifiers available. Bruce MacMillan (sp?) designed them, think PPI Art Series and Power class, Xtant (original not Mitek). The JL amps are a culmination of all of the stuff he was designing at the other two companies.

So far the system sounds very good. I do not have my custom kick panels made yet so I am without the mid-bass drivers. None the less, I am quite happy with it so far. Clean, accurate and dynamic. The system sounds effortless even at high volume.

Not a problem my friend, my camera stinks just as bad.

Out of curiousity, you put polyfill, or fiberfill in that box right? Didn't leave it bare did you? Soooo many car audio sub boxes suffer from this, this and no bracing. I'm sure you did as your no fool, but I wanted to make sure.

My brother just put a system in his car. It's a 88 corrola SR5, with 4inch boston acoustics in the front, custom cutout 6.5inch rears in back dash(also boston acoustics), and a 12inch kenwood subwoofer in a sealed box.

Kenwood, you are the weakest link, goodbye! I wanted him to get something different, and told him it would be boomy. Once we got the car back, low and behold, the sub was boomy. Oh well, he'll listen next time.


SheepStar

 

[Francious70]

No harm's done. He already purchased the products so what good does that do for him?

You can always return or sell you gear.

Out of curiousity, you put polyfill, or fiberfill in that box right? Didn't leave it bare did you? Soooo many car audio sub boxes suffer from this, this and no bracing. I'm sure you did as your no fool, but I wanted to make sure.

Why is polyfill always necissary?? If you make the box the correct size then polyfill should not be needed.

 

[Sheep]

You can always return or sell you gear.



Why is polyfill always necissary?? If you make the box the correct size then polyfill should not be needed.

How many big car audio boxes do you see? SVS still puts it in, and there boxes are big....


SheepStar

 

[Francious70]

Visit http://www.carstereos.org and you'll see people who have 10+ cu ft. boxes for a single 12". That's BIG for a car.

My box is 1.1 cu. ft. before displacement and and .95 cu. ft. after displacement. My sub is rated for 600 watts RMS. I modeled the enclosure so find the exact volume I needed to keep the speaker from overexcursion with 600 watts from my amp, and then built it. No need for polyfil there. It's not always advantagous.

 

[annunaki]

OK, I missed a lot.

Francious,

I have heard the ID MAX. I have heard and listened to many other speakers as well. I think that the MAX cannot touch the W7. Here are my reasons:

1. This is the BIGGEST. RELIABILITY. Nearly EVERY IDMAX owner has had to send their sub in for service. They are also on the 3rd version of the subwoofer because of reliability issues.

2. Performance envelope. The W7, even at full output NEVER sounds stressed or distorted even at the limit. The same cannot be said for the MAX. Not the ones I have heard anyway.

3. Price was not an issue really. I wanted the best performance for my dollar. I feel that the W7 gives me that, even if there are less expensive alternatives, I had to give something up for the the money I saved.


Polyfil:

Yes, I used polyfil in the enclosure. It is mainly used in the "chambered" areas in my enclosure.

The 13W7:

#1 enclosure volme. The box would have been overly large. The 13 also requires a bit more power than the 12. It is also not as efficent as the 12.

 

[annunaki]

Update!

I have moved this enclosure into my home. It is being powered by a Behringer EP2500.

This summer I will be refinishing the enclosure so as to dress it up for home use.

Once my SVS PB-12 Ultra sells (hint hint!) I will add a Behringer dcx2496 to my system.

So far, it sounds wonderful! Articulate insanity is a way to describe it. Once I have the DCX this thing will be insane!

 

[WmAx]

Update!

I have moved this enclosure into my home. It is being powered by a Behringer EP2500.

This summer I will be refinishing the enclosure so as to dress it up for home use.

Once my SVS PB-12 Ultra sells (hint hint!) I will add a Behringer dcx2496 to my system.

So far, it sounds wonderful! Articulate insanity is a way to describe it. Once I have the DCX this thing will be insane!

Yes, the DCX will let you flatten out the 20-35Hz band properly. But ideally, instead of re-finished the cabinet, why not make a new slot ported one? This will be far superior for the HT use.

I was ready to get a pair 12W7 for my new speakers - it's my speaker of choice... or at least it was... I had to get that 15" AP AXIS deal when it came up though..... this is even more raw LF performance than a 12W7... or even a 13W7 can provide....

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

Yes, the DCX will let you flatten out the 20-35Hz band properly. But ideally, instead of re-finished the cabinet, why not make a new slot ported one? This will be far superior for the HT use.

I was ready to get a pair 12W7 for my new speakers - it's my speaker of choice... or at least it was... I had to get that 15" AP AXIS deal when it came up though..... this is even more raw LF performance than a 12W7... or even a 13W7 can provide....

-Chris

Chris,

I hope to have the DCX soon to smooth response. If it is sufficient, I will most likely refinish the enclosure. If not, I may consider a vented route. Music response is slightly more important to me than output for theater.

In the future I plan to have a dedicated theater. I will use some (2-4) behemoth drivers such as TC sounds variants or Maelstrom-x in large vented enclosures.

 

[highfigh]

Chris,

I hope to have the DCX soon to smooth response. If it is sufficient, I will most likely refinish the enclosure. If not, I may consider a vented route. Music response is slightly more important to me than output for theater.

In the future I plan to have a dedicated theater. I will use some (2-4) behemoth drivers such as TC sounds variants or Maelstrom-x in large vented enclosures.

Since the box has a Qts of ~.7, is it a little too "dry" in the theater? If you need a little more kick, maybe down-firing it would eliminate the need to build a new cabinet.

Do you work for a dealer?

 

[annunaki]

A Qts of .7 is typically considered the best compromise between boomy & dry (smoothest response & roll off) with sealed enclosures. It sounds excellent right now. It will only sound better when I add a DCX to smooth response due to room interaction.

 

[annunaki]

Do you work for a dealer?

I did in the past. Not any more though.

 

[croseiv]

Very cool and nicely done!

 

[WmAx]

A Qts of .7 is typically considered the best compromise between boomy & dry (smoothest response & roll off) with sealed enclosures. It sounds excellent right now. It will only sound better when I add a DCX to smooth response due to room interaction.

Of course, as Linkwitz proved, one can take any inherent Qts (even 1.5 for example) and electronically manipulate(EQ) the signal to any end target Qts one desires, at the expense of maximum SPL output and increased power demands(and some increase in distortion due to higher driver excursions and increased air compliance non-linearity).

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

BTW, did you know that there are some subwoofer snobs that claim the W7 is a terrible sounding woofer because it has high inductance? (They completely ignore motor linearity and actual distortion performance.) Unfortunately, being as I have to base quality of a woofer on measured performance vs. human auditory thresholds, I can not understand their claims, and in fact, find the claims to be absurd, since despite high Le, the W7 is one of the better/best subwoofer drivers around, only bettered(slightly) by a very few select woofers such as the higher end TC Sound/Audio Pulse designs that are much more recent in design/conception.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

BTW, did you know that there are some subwoofer snobs that claim the W7 is a terrible sounding woofer because it has high inductance? (They completely ignore motor linearity and actual distortion performance.) Unfortunately, being as I have to base quality of a woofer on measured performance vs. human auditory thresholds, I can not understand their claims, and in fact, find the claims to be absurd, since despite high Le, the W7 is one of the better/best subwoofer drivers around, only bettered(slightly) by a very few select woofers such as the higher end TC Sound/Audio Pulse designs that are much more recent in design/conception.

-Chris

I find that people say many things when they hear what they want (bias) and know what they are listening to prior with preconceptions.

The W7 is one of the best sounding drivers I have ever heard, bar none. I have listened to a lot of woofers too.

In any case I think I have a buyer for my SVS so I will be getting the DCX soon I hope. (Rubs hands together with sinister laugh.)

I can't wait to see how things pan out with flat in-room response.

 

[annunaki]

I got the DCX2496 up and running. Oh what a fun toy!!!!

I love it. Based upon my pre-eq modeling, and applying the correct amounts of eq with the correct q factors, I should be (I have not re-measured for the sake of the neighbors, they've been home) near ruler flat from 16hz-80hz in-room. Thankfully my room only had one mode (due to good placement ) at 42hz at the listening position.

Here is a screen shot of my room response pre-DCX: