SVS SB13-Ultra Owners Impressions

S

superspeed

Enthusiast
Many thanks snowmaNick!
That is a super cool sub!....I am going to check out archives of these units if I can find any.
Also super interested in acquiring their new line of speakers, especially the tower, but have to be careful as I have a rather small combined LR/HT area.
Thanks again for cluing me in and Take Care!
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Many thanks snowmaNick!
That is a super cool sub!....I am going to check out archives of these units if I can find any.
Also super interested in acquiring their new line of speakers, especially the tower, but have to be careful as I have a rather small combined LR/HT area.
Thanks again for cluing me in and Take Care!
Some measurements done by Ilkka on the PB12-Plus/2

25Hz Tune
SVS PB12-Plus/2 25 Hz tune (Plus 12.3) - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
20Hz Tune
SVS PB12-Plus/2 25 Hz tune (Plus 12.3) - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

and a Bash equipped PB13U for reference

20Hz Tune
SVS PB13-Ultra 20 Hz tune - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

15Hz Tune
SVS PB13-Ultra 15 Hz tune - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
 
S

superspeed

Enthusiast
I just checked out the link you provided.....OMG!
190#'s and can handle 2500 rms with a outboard amp!

Was this 2003 model, at a price of $3,499 simply too far ahead of its time?....It looks like with proper education and experience, this 2003 model is/would be state of the art in 2012?.....
I am so glad I asked about this and other prev SVS models of Subs!
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Was this 2003 model, at a price of $3,499 simply too far ahead of its time?....It looks like with proper education and experience, this 2003 model is/would be state of the art in 2012?.....
There's an interesting question.

I'm not really sure how one would qualify a subwoofer such as the B4 to be ahead of its time. Certainly there were bass heads around to appreciate such a thing ten years ago. Also, while I'm sure it could produce more bass than I could shake a stick at, at its core, it's not using any secret sauce to achieve the results.

As to how it would compare to today's models, if someone wants to loan me a B4, I'll compare it against my PB13 and let you know :p
 
R

raynist

Junior Audioholic
Hi raynist...Do you really have 13 subs?
Or, is this a list of subs you have owned in the past?
Also, I acquired the SVS PB-12 Plus this summer....OMG!..I really love (not like) this beast!
Also, I need to ask why you refer to the SVS PB12/2?....I have seen the "/2" reffered by other people, but really don't know what that means?...ie: Older model?
Sorry for so many questions, but respect the different subs you have/had.
Thank-you!
Oh yes, much to my wife's dismay I have 13 subs in my house right now. The list of subs I have owned is a bit larger.

The first 6 are in my game room/home theater, the SB13's are in my bedroom, the SB12 in my office and the Emp Teks are in my living room.
 
R

raynist

Junior Audioholic
Thanks for the correction/link raynist.

Also for interested parties, some measurements for the SB13 Ultra:

SVSound SB13 Ultra - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

They've also got the Axiom EP800, Chase VS18.1, Emo X-Ref 12, and PSA XS15.

Just noticed these after following a link courtesy of Archaea over at AVS.
I am not sure if I am reading the results right, but it almost looks like the SB13 has as much output as the pb12+/2 that you linked. Having both I am sure one of those tests must be wrong unless SVS worked a miracle with the SB13 ultra over the plus. My SB13's are in a room 1/5th the size of my pb12+/2's and don't have the same tactile feel.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
I am not sure if I am reading the results right, but it almost looks like the SB13 has as much output as the pb12+/2 that you linked. Having both I am sure one of those tests must be wrong unless SVS worked a miracle with the SB13 ultra over the plus. My SB13's are in a room 1/5th the size of my pb12+/2's and don't have the same tactile feel.
While different days/weather, measuring equipment, etc will have an impact, the SB13 results line up roughly as I'd expect it to. Compare it to the PB13U in sealed mode for example.

Data-Bass

With respect to tactile feel, there are things could have an impact on that, wood floors vs concrete as one example.
 
R

raynist

Junior Audioholic
While different days/weather, measuring equipment, etc will have an impact, the SB13 results line up roughly as I'd expect it to. Compare it to the PB13U in sealed mode for example.

Data-Bass

With respect to tactile feel, there are things could have an impact on that, wood floors vs concrete as one example.
The sb13's are on carpeted wood floors, the /2's are on carpeted concrete.

I wonder if the configuration of having two drivers side by side and down firing with the ports facing 90 degrees away made the results lower or harder to obtain than they would have been had all drivers and ports been facing the same way (like the PB13)? Looking at the pictures of the testing it would seem that one driver was farther away than the other from the mic.

From talking to Ed Mullen and Tom V i gathered that the +/2 would have a slight output advantage above 30 while the pb13 would have a slight advantage below 30.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
I wonder if the configuration of having two drivers side by side and down firing with the ports facing 90 degrees away made the results lower or harder to obtain than they would have been had all drivers and ports been facing the same way (like the PB13)?
Seems like a reasonable enough possibility to me. Still, even with a bit more output around tuning (where the port is going to make a significant difference) for the /2, the SB13U looks pretty impressive in comparison considering the size and configuration. Of course, when you look at the hardware involved in producing SB13, there's no big mystery as to how the performance was achieved.
 
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R

raynist

Junior Audioholic
Seems like a reasonable enough possibility to me. Still, even with a bit more output around tuning (where the port is going to make a significant difference) for the /2, the SB13U looks pretty impressive in comparison considering the size and configuration. Of course, when you look at the hardware involved in producing SB13, there's no big mystery as to how the performance was achieved.
True.

I would love to see a direct comparison between the SB13+ and the SB13 Ultra to see what differences they were able to achieve. I am not sure if anyone did any CEA2010 testing on the + though.
 
R

raynist

Junior Audioholic
True.

I would love to see a direct comparison between the SB13+ and the SB13 Ultra to see what differences they were able to achieve. I am not sure if anyone did any CEA2010 testing on the + though.
I found this test. No detail numbers, but pretty impressive. I guess I got a good deal on these things at $1150 each :)

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-svs-sb13-plus-subwoofer?page=0,2

Edit: I see now that they measured it at 1m. Why would they do that?? Hasn't 2m been the standard for a while?
 
T

tistru

Enthusiast
Finally got my order in for a SB13-ultra in the piano black gloss finish. According to Dan at SVS, I was the first person to put an order in for the 2nd production run with the $100 discount :) Should ship out middle to end of next week. Can't wait!
 
M

myrr

Audiophyte
Finally got my order in for a SB13-ultra in the piano black gloss finish. According to Dan at SVS, I was the first person to put an order in for the 2nd production run with the $100 discount :) Should ship out middle to end of next week. Can't wait!
Very nice - I ordered one yesterday as well, in the wood veneer finish.... debated quite a bit about which finish to choose :) Nice to see that $100 discount for sure, and their service has been top notch already!

Oh yeah, this is my first post here so hello everybody.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Very nice - I ordered one yesterday as well, in the wood veneer finish.... debated quite a bit about which finish to choose :) Nice to see that $100 discount for sure, and their service has been top notch already!

Oh yeah, this is my first post here so hello everybody.
Congrats, and welcome to the forum!
 
M

myrr

Audiophyte
Adam your review helped me with the decision to pick up this sub... Thanks!
 
T

tistru

Enthusiast
So, I'm going to try to revive this thread now that I finally got my SB13-ultra. Had for a little over a week now, constantly tweaking it and my system along the way. I've had some setup problems, particularly in taming my room acoustics and getting a flat frequency response. While initially I was disappointed with the performance, I've since gotten it to sound much better by tweaking placement, adjusting levels, and activating the parametric eq to tighten my response. I still need more time to give my final judgement but overall, I can say it's a quality product.

Unboxing and Initial Setup
My previous sub was a SVS PB12-NSD (older down firing model with 325W Bash Amp). My motivation in getting a new sub was initially to get more accurate bass in a more compact aestetically pleasing form factor. That naturally led me to look at some of the quality sealed subs out there like the Hsu ULS-15, JL Audio Fathom F113, Def Tech Supercubes, Velodyne DD+ series, Paradigm SUB 12/15, etc. However, when looking at the cost of many of those subs, I become sold on the SVS mainly due to value and previous experience with their quality. In addition, I recently discovered that my PB12 had an issue with the driver (i think) where it just flutters horribly at frequencies below 35hz creating nasty audible distortion (I may not be able to sell it afterall). Thus, I guess it was time to upgrade and get something that I can add a 2nd sub to my system for a reasonable cost and size investment.
I got the piano gloss finish and it is gorgeous. Even my fiance was impressed compared to the pedestrian look of the old PB12. The sub is solid, heavy, and sturdy exhibiting the excellent build quality SVS is known for. The driver is impressive and I was really taken by the material used and it's sturdiness. The first thing I did when I got it out the box was place it in my main listening position, crawl around the front of my room, and compare the two front corner positions to see which one worked best. I decided to place it in the front right corner, set the Sledge volume to -5dB, run Audyssey on my Marantz AV7005, and get to listening.

This Is Not What I Expected
To be honest, my inital impression when first listening was..."where is the bass?". The bass was not very powerful or impactful with various music I tried spanning Hip-Hop, Jazz, Classical, and Pop. Granted, I wasn't able to really turn the volume up beyond -25dB on the Marantz due to the time of day but it was extremely difficult to discern the contribution of the sub to the overall sound. I tried turning off the mains several times to evaluate the sub's sound alone and still found the sound kind of "empty". The next day I gave SVS a call and they gave me some things to try to isolate the issue. I verified that it was not an issue with the Marantz by sending a signal directly from my Oppo-93 player. The levels were still roughly the same. The SVS rep suspected it may just be room issues but I initially was relunctant to believe that for two reasons: 1) The sound from the SB13 did not sound as full as the PB12 throughout the audio band in the same room, and 2) playing some test tones revealed that the levels decreased dramatically in my room below 60hz (we're talking like -15-20db and stayed down to the limits of the sub around 22hz). After several more days of evaluation, I resolved both concerns. The most recent location for my PB12 was on the opposite front corner, so it wasn't really an apples to apples comparison. At one point, I did have the PB12 on the same side as the SB13, but found the sound thin and moved it to the opposite side. I wanted to leave the SB13 on the right side for room aestetics so I was going to try the get satisfactory performance in that location. Furthermore, I obtained some new test tones that worked better than the initial ones which apparently weren't recorded at the same levels thus invaliding my freq response data.

Light At The End Of The Tunnel
After obtaining new test tones I manually charted the frequency response at my main position and discovered I have a large null at 45hz and a peak from 75-90hz. I then used the P-EQ to flatten those out best I could. Finally, I moved my couch back about a foot from the center of my room which has a null and did some listening. Now I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Tracks that should have full booming bass do now and I can hear it with much more impact at my listening position. The bass is certainly tighter than my PB12-NSD with much less distortion that reduces unwanted noises such as shuffing and rattling. I still am not sure I hear the difference with the "accuracy" and "articulation" of the bass when compared to the PB12. That could be do to either the room still or the source material I'm using so like I said, I want to give it more time before I give a full evaluation.
The next thing is to spend more times with movies to see if my tweaking has helped. Using a DTS sampler disc I received from CES2011, I found some of my favorite tracks lacking in the sub-30hz region compared to the PB12. Again, that could be do to the more complete corner loading I had with the PB12. I also haven't listened to movies since I made the last round of tweaks with the parametric EQ. So look for some follow up impressions with movies by the end of this week.

Summary
Pros:
- Tight controlled bass
- Low distortion makes listening more pleasant and louder levels less disruptive
- Great aestetics and finish
- Flexible with lots of DSP controls for tweaking

Cons:
- Difficult to get sounding up to it's potential in my room
- Lacking in the ultra-low end (sub-30hz region) when compared to the cheaper ported PB12

AGAIN, THIS IS NOT MY FINAL WORD. JUST MY IMPRESSIONS UP TO THIS POINT. THERE IS STILL PLENTY OF TESTING I NEED TO DO AND VARIABLES I NEED TO ELIMINATE BEFORE I CAN GIVE A CONFIDENT AND FAIR EVALUATION.

Hopefully, this will bring some of you other owners out from your silence :)
 

Attachments

G

Gord Gee

Enthusiast
I think I promised a review of the SB13-Ultra and I thought I posted it here. Looks like I didn't, so here are my impressions:

The build quality of the SB13-Ultra is outstanding! Looks great in the Black Oak finish and is heavier than this relatively compact box looks.

I still haven’t watched a full bass, reference-quality movie yet with my new SB13-Ultra nor have I had the chance to run REW. So far I’ve watched scenes of a few movie clips that I’m familiar with (War of the Worlds, Master & Commander, and Ironman 2) to do a quick evaluation of its abilities with just a quick set-up.

On this material, the extension, headroom, and clarity are amazing! Though I know the PB13-Ultra has more output down low, I seriously can’t say I would need more than the single SB13-Ultra already provides. There are fine details heard in some bass sections and sound effects that I don’t remember hearing before being presented with great definition!

On the few regular movies I’ve seen as well as on just standard TV viewing are impressive as well. Still waiting for Pioneer to do a software up-date so I can watch my Blu-ray copy of Prometheus to give the sub a work-out.

Music has always been very important to me as well and is one reason that I’ve been waiting for a SB version of the Ultra. Ported subs, especially large ones, tend to do less well with music.

This is the most articulate sub I’ve ever had the pleasure to listen to! in terms of musicality, the SB13-Ultra is absolutely wonderful. On jazz, you can actually hear the sounds of a double bass player’s fingers pluck the strings, and the nuances in the way the notes are played are easily heard. Playing bass heavy music like “Woofer Cooker” which has serious amounts of deep bass, the SB Ultra more than stands up to the task. This sub is an out-standing subwoofer for music! I had a fellow audiophile over the other day to listen- he has a set of high-end Tetra 505 speakers and is now thinking of adding a SB13-Ultra to his system. The ultra low end bass, quickness, out-put, definition and pure musicality really blew him away.

The only thing I would suggest is that SVS throw in a small mirror as this would make it much easier to set the dial and make the adjustments after it’s set in place. Even better, maybe make a way to reverse the display to use with the small hand-held mirror, however this is minor as it’s still easily read. Would probably only require a small change in the display programming to accomplish.

I have no reservations recommending the SB13-Ultra for HT, and even more importantly, for music. This is a truly superb sub for both audiophiles and Home Theatre buffs.

I’m looking forward to seeing how it does after I tweak it a bit more using REW and make some adjustments with its dual band Parametric EQ.
 
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