Surround Speaker Dilemma

[stope4]

Room is 18'deep x 25'wide x 12' high and is open to kitchen and breakfast nook. Breakfast nook is open to formal living room. Floor is travertine with area rug. Currently have a Bose Lifestyle 35 that fills room fine but system is old with no HDMI. All wires go thru sub so placement of sub is very limited. In your face limited. Decided to replace bos. Already purchased the following:
-1 Yamaha RX-A3000,
-2 Outlaw BLS
-1 Outlaw LCR
-1 Epik Legend.

I realize the Legend may be a little undersized but we don't like in your face bass. We like it on the lite side.

Here's the delimma. The way the room is setup I have no way to place surrounds behind us head high. They will have to be on the ceiling. I am not sure what to purchase. In-ceiling is possible but have not heard many good things about listening when it comes to in-ceiling. Can possibly get bookshelves but they would be hanging from ceiling slightly behind sitting area 12' off the ground. Almost like in-ceiling. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[m_vanmeter]

can you put the two surrounds on stands and bring them out for "movie night" - just go 3.1 the remainder of the time ?

 

[GranteedEV]

Here's the delimma. The way the room is setup I have no way to place surrounds behind us head high. They will have to be on the ceiling. I am not sure what to purchase. In-ceiling is possible but have not heard many good things about listening when it comes to in-ceiling. Can possibly get bookshelves but they would be hanging from ceiling slightly behind sitting area 12' off the ground. Almost like in-ceiling. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Here are my rear surrounds; bookshelf speakers aimed about 40 degrees down at the LP from the ceiling.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9428/20111108195421.jpg

I am using these Omnimount 20.0C wall/ceiling mounts:

Amazon.com: OmniMount Stainless Steel Speaker Mount for Ceiling (Black): Electronics

If your bookshelves are heavier than ~15lb, I'd consider the pricier but stronger 30.0 CA

Amazon.com: OmniMount Stainless Steel 30.0 CA (each) - Mounting kit for speaker - white - ceiling mountable: Electronics

You will need to use your stud finder to find the appropriate mounting location in the ceiling.

Ideally I recommend coaxial speakers for this kind of install because of the reflection off the ceiling and need for a smooth vertical - and horizontal power response. The KEF Q100 (13lb) or Q300 (17lb) are a great choice.

 

[lsiberian]

Could you put the surrounds on the sides?

 

[stope4]

m vanmeter, Not a bad idea. Wires will be a problem with this.

lsiberian, another good idea but the side towards the kitchen and breakfast nook is open. Wires are a problem.

Granteed EV, Omnimount is a very good possibility. Already have the Bose wiring in the attic and the little jewel cube speakers mounted in this fashion. Didn't know anyone made a mount that could hold a 30 lb speaker hanging from the ceiling. The problem is the speakers will be about 15' above and behind the listening area. The jewel cubes don't cut it. Do you think a small bookshelf like shown or a second set of Outlaw bookshelves will be better?

 

[GranteedEV]

Do you think a small bookshelf like shown or a second set of Outlaw bookshelves will be better?

The Outlaw speakers are MTMs. Their vertical dispersion will seriously limit what you hear unless you can manage to aim their axis directly at the listening point.

I strongly recommend the 6.5" coaxial Q300s for your application. It will allow for plenty of output and have a wider coverage area than the MTMs. Being smaller, aiming them towards the listening position will also be easier. I would not trust the Omnimount 30 with a 30lb speaker... i'd limit it to around 20-22lbs. Same with the Omnimount 20 / 20lb speakers... keep it around 60% of rated weight as those IMO are pretty optimistic.

 

[GoFastr]

You stated that you thought you would need in-ceiling or on ceiling speakers for your room. For this installation to look professional I think the only choice would be to run the wires inside the ceiling space and come down somewhere near your AVR. Good sounding in-ceiling speakers are usually pretty pricey. The better ones usually have a box built around them so all the sound gets directed down and doesn't get wasted in the ceiling space. I have the Klipsch KS-7502 THX that go for MSRP $1k each but you can usually find some eBay deals or xmas sales for half that.

Otherwise maybe there are some decent self powered wireless rear surrounds that may work for you? Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

 

[stope4]

Wires were installed when house was built. The wires run up wall into attic to area where these speakers would be mounted behind the listening area. Currently have jewel cube speakers mounted on ceiling pointed towards listening area but really can't hear them. I only said in-ceiling because I don't want a tacky looking install. The OmniMount is a step in the right direction. So are the Klipsch you mention.

 

[zieglj01]

Do you think a small bookshelf like shown or a second set of Outlaw bookshelves will be better?

Your Outlaw BLS are not MTM - they are 2-way speakers, and they will
do a good job as surrounds.

 

[GoFastr]

Pair Oragon by Klipsch 8.5" In Ceiling Speakers OR8.5S | eBay

Klipsch CDT-3800-C In-Ceiling Speaker (PAIR) cdt3800 | eBay

Definitive Technology UIW BP/A (PAIR) In wall / Ceiling Speakers (93207019135) | eBay

Sonance In-Ceiling Speakers - Virtuoso 832R - NIB-Pair | eBay

 

[zieglj01]

If for some reason you do decide to go in ceiling - then look at Snell.
They will favor the sound of the Outlaw (Snell) speakers.
SNELL OH-S7 Full-range 8-inch coax with “Direct Power†waveguide Each | Accessories4less

 

[stope4]

now that I see there is a nice hanging bracket, I'll probably go with a bookshelf. Just need to decide what surround to go with.

 

[stope4]

Zeig, Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of getting two VS260s for the front r and l, with the Outlaw LCR for the center and the Outlaw bookshelves for the surrounds? Would these work together in this way?

 

[stope4]

O.K., finally got everything installed. Went with the Yamaha rx-a2000, the Outlaw LCR for center, the BA VS 260s for R/L fronts, and the Epic Legend sub using the Outlaw wireless system. Was going to use Outlaw BLS Bookshelves for surrounds but no good place to mount. VS 260s sound great with the Outlaw LCR and the wireless works flawlessly. Really really nice sound and wireless is decent. I'm actually very please. Did not install rear surrounds because I have nowhere to mount and angle towards sitting area in the right way. Will definitiely have to go with ceiling speakers for the surrounds. Here's my question, should the ceiling speakers be mounted two to three feet behind the sitting area or directly above the sitting area? I can do either.

 

[zieglj01]

O.K., finally got everything installed. Went with the Yamaha rx-a2000, the Outlaw LCR for center, the BA VS 260s for R/L fronts, and the Epic Legend sub using the Outlaw wireless system. Was going to use Outlaw BLS Bookshelves for surrounds but no good place to mount. VS 260s sound great with the Outlaw LCR and the wireless works flawlessly. Really really nice sound and wireless is decent. I'm actually very please. Did not install rear surrounds because I have nowhere to mount and angle towards sitting area in the right way. Will definitiely have to go with ceiling speakers for the surrounds. Here's my question, should the ceiling speakers be mounted two to three feet behind the sitting area or directly above the sitting area? I can do either.

Yes, the Boston VS 260 is a real good one. I do pick up some Snell
technology in them - so maybe, that is why the Outlaw LCR is working
good with them. This is my preference for the ceiling speakers - mount
them above the sitting area, slightly behind you. Good Luck!

 

[stope4]

Can I get you guys opinions about whether to put the in-ceiling speakers in a box or leave them opened to the attic?

 

[stope4]

I bought and installed the Snell ceiling/wall speakers as suggested for my surrounds. I have to say these speakers are really nice. The tweeter is at a 20 degree angle so you can point them towards any direction you want just by turning the speaker. As surrounds I pointed them towards the back wall at 45 degree angles to the sitting area. I also removed the VS260s as L/R fronts and replaced with the Outlaw BLS. Seems the Snell ceiling surrounds really blend with the Outlaws nicely. Didn't think I could make this sound better but it actually does with these Snells. Thanks Zeig for a very nice suggestion.

 

[zieglj01]

Didn't think I could make this sound better but it actually does with these Snells. Thanks Zeig for a very nice suggestion.

Your welcome - and the price on the Snell in-ceiling speaker, is a steal.

 

[stope4]

looks like accessories for less is out of the Snell speakers.

 

[zieglj01]

looks like accessories for less is out of the Snell speakers.

Your right - you got lucky.