Surround Sound Opinions

[fuzz092888]

It seems like every time someone comes around looking to add surround sound speakers, be it for 5 channel or 7 channel it seems a mini-debate always arises about the pros and cons. I did a quick forum search and didn't come up with a single thread dedicated to these opinions so I thought it might be helpful to consolidate the debate into a single thread. If I missed one, I apologize in advance. Instead of debating the merits of 5 vs 7 vs more channels or which type of speaker to use for said surround (dipole, bi-pole, etc), I'm more focused on opinions on surround sound in general. My curiosity stems from some comments I've read quite a few times about going cheap on surround speakers due to the lack of surround content in most movies and/or skipping them altogether.

Questions:

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.

 

[Adam]

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

Yes. I ran 5.1 for about 15 years, and I've had 7.1 for almost a year.

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

Of course I could live without it.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

Yes.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

My surrounds are the same as my front speakers. Before I upgraded speakers in 1998, I was running a $20/pair set for the surrounds. Meh.

 

[Pyrrho]

...

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

Yes. 6.1 channels. The reason for 6.1 is that after replacing my old 5.1 system with a 6.1 system, I was less than bowled over by the addition of the rear surround, and so now that I have a 7.1 channel receiver, I did not bother putting in a second rear surround speaker.

If I move, and if there is room for it, I will add the other speaker when I set things up again. I do own a speaker for the position, but it is so trivial to me that I have not bothered to install it.

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

It would be easy to live without it. A good 2.0 system is what I listen to most of the time. But I do like surround sound for movies, and like multichannel SACDs better than 2 channel sources, if one sits in the right location. But most music recordings are not multichannel, so most of the time, it is of no importance to me with music.

And when one listens to background music, it is unimportant as well.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

I think quite a few people are confused about this issue.

I have some classical multichannel SACDs that sound great, but one does not notice the surrounds, unless one shuts them off, and then the loss of realism is quite noticeable. The surrounds, if properly used, can make a big difference, but without always drawing attention to themselves.

With movies, it is usually exactly right, with a sound seeming to come from behind only when appropriate. It would be bizarre for the dialog and other such sounds to be coming from the rear as much as from the front for most movies. If one is expecting that, one has very peculiar expectations.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

I have identical speakers in all positions, except the subwoofers. I will never go back to different speakers for different positions, because I don't want the sound quality to change when a sound moves from one channel to another.

The surrounds are less important than the front, but "less important" does not mean "not important."

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?
...

I have not measured these things. And how loud I listen depends sometimes on mood.

 

[Nestor]

It seems like every time someone comes around looking to add surround sound speakers, be it for 5 channel or 7 channel it seems a mini-debate always arises about the pros and cons. I did a quick forum search and didn't come up with a single thread dedicated to these opinions so I thought it might be helpful to consolidate the debate into a single thread. If I missed one, I apologize in advance. Instead of debating the merits of 5 vs 7 vs more channels or which type of speaker to use for said surround (dipole, bi-pole, etc), I'm more focused on opinions on surround sound in general. My curiosity stems from some comments I've read quite a few times about going cheap on surround speakers due to the lack of surround content in most movies and/or skipping them altogether.

Questions:

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

Running 7.2 (9.2 if you count the front presence speakers)

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

I've had surround since 1990, when I made my own primitive surround decoder (sans delay). I can't imagine not having it.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

Definitely.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

Except the subs, all speakers are Klipsch Ref series. I have run mismatched speakers in the past and found it to be a pain to match up tonally. The B&W bookshelves I was using for surrounds at the time were far less sensitive than the klipsch Chorus I had, and limited the rest of the system.

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

n/a

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

Louder than I should, probably.

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.

The rear surrounds have a nice fill when watching concerts.

 

[templemaners]

It seems like every time someone comes around looking to add surround sound speakers, be it for 5 channel or 7 channel it seems a mini-debate always arises about the pros and cons. I did a quick forum search and didn't come up with a single thread dedicated to these opinions so I thought it might be helpful to consolidate the debate into a single thread. If I missed one, I apologize in advance. Instead of debating the merits of 5 vs 7 vs more channels or which type of speaker to use for said surround (dipole, bi-pole, etc), I'm more focused on opinions on surround sound in general. My curiosity stems from some comments I've read quite a few times about going cheap on surround speakers due to the lack of surround content in most movies and/or skipping them altogether.

Questions:

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

At my last residence, I did have 5 channels of surround sound. Going up to 7 would have been tricky in terms of speaker placement (didn't want to put in wall mounts in an apartment).

I've just moved, so everything is in flux with my gear. I have a 20x14x8 room downstairs that I intend to set up, and that one I think I will go 7 channels. As an intermediate step, I'm going L-C-R in my upstairs living area while I save up to get the speakers and subs I want. It's not as friendly to a 5 channel setup as my apartment was (eventually it'll just be a 2 channel music), so it's going to be a compromise for a while.

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

It's something I want, but I can live without it if need be.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

It depends on the content I'm watching/playing. A lot of the stuff I watch or play when it comes to video games does use the surrounds quite a bit, so it is something I want to have, though I can sacrifice it if I need to.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

I was originally going to get Ascend CBM-170s to match (somewhat) with my Sierra-1s. But after factoring the costs of stands, I was able to get my Infinity 362's for a lot cheaper (paid $300). They worked quite well as surrounds, even if they weren't at the proper height.

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

I have not heard a system with more expensive surrounds.

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

At my apartment, I was usually listening at around -25 db in order to keep the peace and maintain some dynamic range with my speakers. When I've done SPL readings from my seat back then (7-8ft away), I'd max out SPL wise around 90 db. Unsure what the noise floor was, but it was pretty quiet most of the time.

At the house, I plan to be up in the -8 to -15 range, but I plan on upgrading all of the speakers big time to something that are higher in sensitivity. It also has a quiet noise floor.

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.

I sorta think that matching surrounds are overrated, especially if you aren't listening to multi-channel music. In fact, I think for my 7.1 system, I don't think the surround pairs are going to match (thinking JBL 8320 or 8350's in the back, and no idea for sides... the JBL ones won't work on the sides due to a window and doorway).

 

[shadyJ]

I have both 5.1 and 7.1 setups. Surround sound is alright, but I think it is a bit superfluous. And to anyone who thinks otherwise, I would ask; is there a soundtrack out there that requires surround channels? Until there is, surround sound is basically a gimmick. As for the amount of content coming from the surround channels, that depends on the movie. Some movies have a bunch, some have very little. My own surround speakers are not quite as powerful as their front stage speakers but not bad speakers: Hsu HB-1s and Infinity Primus p162. The sound level I watch at depends on the movie, if it is a beefy mix, I will turn it up to zero, but if the movie isn't improved by a louder level I will just play it at -10 about. The noise floor here is pretty good if the AC isn't on.

 

[Adam]

Surround sound is alright, but I think it is a bit superfluous. And to anyone who thinks otherwise, I would ask; is there a soundtrack out there that requires surround channels?

Being entertainment, of course it isn't required. Neither is color, nor definition great enough to provide clarity beyond basic object recognition. Heck, orchestras don't require string instruments, nor do rock bands require drummers. However, at least to me, they sure do make things more entertaining.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Being entertainment, of course it isn't required. Neither is color, nor definition great enough to provide clarity beyond basic object recognition. Heck, orchestras don't require string instruments, nor do rock bands require drummers. However, at least to me, they sure do make things more entertaining.

Rock bands require drummers.

 

[markw]

There's nothing to debate. You do what you want.

Me, I prefer to listen to the source it was intended to be listened in.

Most music is two channel so I listen in two channel. I do have a few 5.1 SACD's so then the MC comes into play.

Most movies were recorded in MC so I listen to them in 5.1. I know some, not all, movies use more but that's all I can comfortably fit into my listening area, ...and the effect an still be quite stunning. Granted, the surrounds are rarely called for but when they do kick in it adds to the experience.

Some people lile to listen to their two channel music in some enhanced DSP mode that throws sounds out of all speakers but, hey, it's their system. Let 'em listen to it the way they want.

As for speakers, I have two medium sixed towers for the front R/L. a matching center and the surrounds are from the same line as the others but smaller, matching bookshelf versions.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?
Yes, 5.1 in family room (2.1 in bedroom)

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?
Could live without it but wouldn't want to.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?
Yes being that I watch mostly action and SciFi.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?
I'm currently using Ascend Acoustics CMT-340se's as surrounds...I'd say high quality others might not.

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?
n/a

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?
Approximately -25 on the volume. I don't know want the noise floor is.

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.
I have wondered if I bought something like the Philharmonic 3's or Magnepans if I could live without surround speakers and be happy...Maybe...probably not entirely.

 

[Steve81]

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

Running 5.1 currently.

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

It's something I could live without pretty easily (and have).

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

There's definitely some light background activity that makes up most of the action for the surround channels, with the occasional instance where the surround channels might take the lead.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

I went with the matching surrounds for my set, though if I upgraded further up the KEF line (i.e. to the R series), I'd leave well enough alone. I've run el-cheapos before without much trouble, though I do prefer my current dipoles over monopole.

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

The norm for me is about -20dB from reference (comfortably loud for the wife), though I'm known to push it up to -10dB to -5dB when I want to "feel it".

Noise floor is in the 40dB range per Omnimic. HVAC can throw things off a bit though, both because a vent is right above the seating position and because the system is in an adjacent room.

 

[psbfan9]

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

I run a 5.1 system

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

I could live without surround sound, but I think it really enhances the 'home theater' experience.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

Yes. I do notice a good bit of content coming from my surrounds. Bullets whizzing by head, figuratively, not literally, makes the the movie more entertaining. Also, background voices/noise can also add to the soundtrack.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

I use Definitive Technology SM 450's as surrounds. So I guess I went mid fi. I would like to try a di/bi pole speaker that is made specifically for surround sound though

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

I have heard a more expensive system. At HH Gregg they a had a Bose system that was really kind of awful. Loud, but awful.

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

-25 to -19

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.

My comments only relate to video. I listen to music exclusively in stereo or pure direct.

 

[fuzz092888]

The debate I was referring to is the importance of MC in general. While that's pretty subjective, I thought I'd try and gather some data. There seems to be so many newbie threads where the topic is danced around by debating whether to get this type of speaker or this type, whether to match or not, to spend more or not, to start with 2 or 3 channels and grow from there or go for it all at once, etc. Plus I just think it's interesting to hear where everyone stands.

You happened to bring up something I hadn't originally thought of when I started the thread, and that's up mixing. Something I happen to do a lot when watching TV or movies. When it comes to music, I leave the signal alone, but for TV and movies I have it all up mixed to 9 channels.

There's nothing to debate. You do what you want.

 

[PENG]

First of all, thanks for starting this interesting thread.

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

7 for now, considering 2 more.

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

Can live without if forced to.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

Yes, for action, sci fi, horror movies and live concerts.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

I have cheaper ones that are of the same brand but one notch lower on their product line up.

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

Yes, but never paid enough attention to remember what they were as I typically focus more on 2 channel performance. I assume those in movie cinemas are more expensive yet I think my home system sounds much better.

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

-17 to -25, for anything lower than -20, I make sure Audyssey DEQ is on.

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.

I feel that the surrounds are mainly for effects, it is not worth spending money to get the same quality/size of the front channels as I wouldn't notice any difference in sound quality anyway. It is better to spend the money on better subs and save the space that will otherwise be occupied by the larger size speakers.

 

[fmw]

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

5.1 here for about 15 years.

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

I think it adds to the entertainment value of the presentation. I have 2.0 in the bedroom and enjoy watching movies there almost as much so it isn't critical for me, just a nice feature.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

Exactly the amount sent there by the sound track and the surround processing.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

I don't consider surround speakers at all critical. I use a pair of Tannoy recording monitors. I forgot what they cost but the cost was modest.

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

I have heard systems with expensive surrounds. I don't remember them impressing me as much as the expensive mains.

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

About 75 to 80 db. I'm not sure what you mean by a room noise floor. We live in the country and any noise is generated within the house.

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.

So when do we get to read your analysis of all this?

 

[fuzz092888]

7 for now, considering 2 more.

I think this really depends on your room and your front L/R. With the Phils, I definitely didn't need highs or wides because they throw such a huge soundstage. With the Source Tech 8.3's I noticed that the soundstage was still fairly wide, but seemed a bit shorter so I ended up adding front heights. I'm still experimenting with the settings on my receiver and how much content to route up there, but I notice a definite improvement, especially when things fly overhead like in "Flight of the Phoenix".

 

[fuzz092888]

So when do we get to read your analysis of all this?

My analysis is that, like most other things in this hobby, surround sound is highly subjective

So far the data is pretty incomplete since I believe everyone who has answered has surround sound, except for templemanners who had it and is now living without it for awhile. To get a more complete picture, it would be great to hear from both people who chose skip it and people who are planning on moving up to it. Need more data, sample size is too small

 

[fuzz092888]

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

I do, currently running 9.4.

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

I'm a hardcore movie watcher and I couldn't see myself going without it now that I have it.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

Depends on the movie. I guess I could have worded this question better

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

I ended up spending a bit more than I think most guys would, but a worthy investment for my own personal tastes.

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

I definitely went cheap with my original surround speakers. My first surround speakers were part of a logitech z5500 system I bought in college, then came some hand me down JBL's, and I've also used my EMP E41B's. Obviously there are movie theater surrounds, but I've then Walter was kind enough to invite me over and his system blew me away. Within a week I had ordered a pair of RC4a's and Walter ended up loaning his rear surrounds, which I'll end up replacing with either the same ones or moving what I have to the rear and ordering new surrounds.

To me, the differences were staggering between the cheap surrounds I had been using and moving to the EMP's. I also noticed a big difference when moving from the EMP's to the RC4a's. I have no hesitation investing money in the surrounds these days.

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

I generally watch movies at about -10 to -3, which translates into about 85-90dbC average with peaks 110+dbC. The noise floor of my room in the summer is usually around 40-60dbC, so it ain't exactly quiet which translates into higher volume levels in order to capture the more subtle sounds from movie soundtrack.

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.

One more note on upmixing. It's not for everyone and the original content will play a part in determining how effective it is, as will which processing mode you choose to use and what is available on your receiver. In general I use THX Cinema, but bounce back and forth between PL II X and DTS NEO X (and for reference I have an Onkyo 3009) and find it does an excellent job. For 5.1 tracks, the rear surrounds aren't pumping out any irregular sounds and I think really does add something to a movie soundtrack, even if it is just ambient noise. For 7.1 tracks I hardly notice the heights until I turn them off, which to me, means that the upmixing is quite good.

For television shows I like the upmixing because it can either make you feel like you're sitting in a studio audience or add a little something you might not expect. The first couple weeks of upmixing TV shows I was looking for ringing phones in the bedroom or looking at one of the doors wondering why someone had slammed one.

Like I said, upmixing isn't for everyone and I predict many won't share my zeal for it, but I do enjoy it even if you don't always notice it.

 

[PENG]

I think this really depends on your room and your front L/R. With the Phils, I definitely didn't need highs or wides because they throw such a huge soundstage.

I agree, just curious about the effect of width regardless, and I have the extra speakers anyway.

 

[TLS Guy]

Do you have surround sound? If so, how many channels? If not, why?

Yes, I have a 7.1 system in my main AV/studio room. It certainly does not need wide speakers as the sound stage is huge. A lot of recordings seem to somehow also impart height information without height speakers.

I have a 2.0 system in my lower level great room. The system is largely vintage and the room is most suited to 2.1 or 2.0. It has two subs, but the LFE channel is not captured.

In our town home I have a 3.1 system. The main speakers have built in subs, that reproduce the LFE channel. The room is not suitable for surround channels.

Is surround sound something you want (if you don't have it) or something you couldn't live without (if you have it)?

It is really nice to have, but I would never buy lesser speakers just to have surround. In a budget crunch, surround would be the first thing to go.

Do you find much content coming from your surround speakers when watching movies?

It depends on the movie, but in a lot yes, and the material is demanding of the surround and back speakers.

War Horse comes to mind, Tron and Real Steel. There are many others. I have SACD recordings that make a lot of use of the rear channels. I have one that puts heavy demands on all five speakers, and one set where for periods of time all of the program is from the rear. I also have an SACD of antiphonal brass and organs. This practice was common in eighteenth century Italy.

If you do have surround sound, did you spring for high quality surrounds or did you go for cheaper ones?

All seven speakers are very high quality. There is no dedicated sub, but the LFE signal is reproduced by the big bass lines of the left and right mains. I personally do not agree that having low quality and or low power surrounds is acceptable. Low quality speakers anywhere will detract from the final result. This system creates 360 degree images with depth.

If you went cheaper on the surrounds, have you ever heard a system with expensive surround speakers? If so what brand? Did you notice any differences positive or negative?

See above. I designed and constructed my speakers.

At what level do you usually watch movies and what is the noise floor of your room?

I watch movies at a level that provides natural intelligible conversational speech.

The noise floor of my room, all 14 amps, crossovers and pre/pro on with HVAC running is below the sensitivity of my meter on its most sensitive setting.

Any other comments or opinions are welcome.

I personally think dipole surrounds are a mistake. The surround and back channels are not just for ambiance. They need to have the properties of imaging and depth, as much as any other speaker.