Subwoofer voltage problem!

[soulfly]

Trying to get some input. I've been having trouble with my Paradigm pw-2200. It keeps blowing fuses inside the amp. When I replace the fuse as soon as I plug my rca in it, it arcs and blows the fuse. I can't find any voltage on my lfe output, reciever is always off. I did find that I have 120 volts on the back of my sub amp with my voltmeter. The outside shield of the rca jack has 120 volts. I've sent it to Paradigm twice and they say nothing is wrong with it. I'm running this off a harmon/kardon avr 7300 if that helps. It appears to be working fine. Anybody had a problem like this? Anybody know if there is supposed to be voltage on the amp? Any help would be great I really miss my sub.

 

[wafflebird]

Here are a couple of things to check

First off unplug EVERYTHING concerning the sub. Disconnect all cords etc. Check your wall voltage to verify it is good. Plug the power cable into the sub only. Then check and see what voltage you have where. If you are saying that the outside metal panel of the sub amp is live with voltage to the touch then something is bad wrong here. Also if you are saying that you have 120 volts @ the LFE input then something is wrong inside the amp as in a short. You should have no voltage at the LFE input. This is where voltage comes in to the sub from the receiver, there certinly should not be 120 volts there. If this is the case DO NOT hook it back up to anything, and do not let the people at Paradigm tell you nothing is wrong. Take pictures if you have to and show them!!! This is a hazardous situation if indeed you have 120 at the LFE input. If that is the case the amp is shorted out inside somwhere and the voltage that is supposed to drive the driver is trying to go out the LFE input. If by some small chance your sub does not expierience this voltage issue by itself check the voltage on the sub output from the receiver. It as well should not have 120 volts. Hope this helps you out and I hope you get this figured out cause hey...... life without a sub kina sucks.....

 

[soulfly]

I have checked all of those things. My dealer made several heated phone calls with Paradigm today and its going back for a thrid time. When I went to pick it up yesterday I thought it was fixxed. I check voltage before I lugged it home just to be sure and it was still there. I did check a couple of their display subs while I was there. This is where I got confused. Both of them had around 50-70 volts on them. I thought the outside shield of the lfe was a ground. Now I'm trying to find out if all subs have voltage on them. I did hook my sub up to my old sony amp and it played fine. I know the avr 7300 is built better and well grounded. I guess this is way it blows the fuse. I'm thinking I have an issue with the transformer or some wierd polarization problem.
Paradigm must think something is wrong with it because they are taking it back again. Maybe this time with someone explaining the problem on the phone they will fix it. If anybody can check voltage on there subs I would like to know what you see. I'm starting to think they all have voltage but mine's packing some strong amps too.
Life without a sub sucks but the monitor 11's have picked up the slack pretty good. I have been surprized by how much bass these things put out since I got them broke in.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have checked all of those things. My dealer made several heated phone calls with Paradigm today and its going back for a thrid time. When I went to pick it up yesterday I thought it was fixxed. I check voltage before I lugged it home just to be sure and it was still there. I did check a couple of their display subs while I was there. This is where I got confused. Both of them had around 50-70 volts on them. I thought the outside shield of the lfe was a ground. Now I'm trying to find out if all subs have voltage on them. I did hook my sub up to my old sony amp and it played fine. I know the avr 7300 is built better and well grounded. I guess this is way it blows the fuse. I'm thinking I have an issue with the transformer or some wierd polarization problem.
Paradigm must think something is wrong with it because they are taking it back again. Maybe this time with someone explaining the problem on the phone they will fix it. If anybody can check voltage on there subs I would like to know what you see. I'm starting to think they all have voltage but mine's packing some strong amps too.
Life without a sub sucks but the monitor 11's have picked up the slack pretty good. I have been surprized by how much bass these things put out since I got them broke in.

That is an interesting issue. Have you discussed it with Paradigm about that 50-70v? How about the dealer? Any other sub brand at the dealer has that voltage? How are you measuring that voltage; just double checking. Is it Ac/DC?

 

[jcPanny]

Voltage scale

Make sure that you are seeing 50 Volts AC/DC on the demo sub and not 50 millivolts AC/DC = 0.050 Volts. There is a big difference. Most multimeters will fluctuate in the millivolts range with nothing connected to the leads.

 

[soulfly]

Its ac voltage. One sub was a MTX and I think the other one was Paradigm. The dealer was just as confused as me when the other subs had voltage too. I got a sperry volt meter I use at work. Its a digital readout and its defifnatly not millvolts. I ground the meter to the ground plug in the wallplate and put the hot lead on the sub. Anybody else got a voltmeter to check their sub.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I ground the meter to the ground plug in the wallplate and put the hot lead on the sub. .

I would presume the sub amp plate on the back of the sub?
If so, I don't understand this myself. It should be 0V as they should be the same ground potential.


I just remembered that I am storing a friend's sub and checked.
AC plugged in, sub amp off- fraction of ac volt between grd and amp plate, or amp plate and grd on RCA jack.
amp on- more leakage as high as about 10V

You may want to check AC voltage reading between the RCA input's outer jacket, grnd and the receivers LFE's RCA outer jacket.

 

[soulfly]

Yeah I was talking about the amp plate and the outer shield of the lfe input. The sub cable coming from my reciever has nothing on it. Odd that your sub tested 10 volts too. I guess they all have some voltage, I wish I knew somebody that built these thing so I could find out. Hopefully Paradigm can fix it this time and maybe get it back by January. I've been subless since October. Anybody here know how a pw2200 compares to a seismic 12? I wish they would let me trade up to that beast.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yeah I was talking about the amp plate and the outer shield of the lfe input. The sub cable coming from my reciever has nothing on it. Odd that your sub tested 10 volts too. I guess they all have some voltage, I wish I knew somebody that built these thing so I could find out. Hopefully Paradigm can fix it this time and maybe get it back by January. I've been subless since October. Anybody here know how a pw2200 compares to a seismic 12? I wish they would let me trade up to that beast.

Did you get the feeling from Paradigm that there may be something indeed wrong? Does the shop owner had problems with his blowing when an lfe cable and receiver is attached or being attached?

 

[wafflebird]

Hey just some additional information on this

I have done a little research (mostly for curiosity and to also make sure I had not given any bad information) and it would seem that most receivers maximum voltage output through the LFE sub cable goes up to about 9 volts. So I still think something funky is going on with this particular sub and the problem it is having. Just wanted to add this info. Found this out looking at some reviews of receivers and the tested specs for them and specs like the following seem to be the standard,

"Maximum unclipped subwoofer output (trim at 0): 8.8 volts"

Soulfly any word back from Paradigm yet?

 

[markw]

this is about normal.

"Maximum unclipped subwoofer output (trim at 0): 8.8 volts"

This is towards the upper limit of what's loosly defined as a "line level" signal, which I've always considered to be between 1 to 10 volts.

but, that sparksundspitzen is another creature entirely.

Can you say "spooky power supply". kiddies?

 

[soulfly]

Yeah I'm thinking spooky transformer. I wont find anything out untill it shows up at my dealer again. Wafflebird thats cool to know that max output is 9 volts for the lfe. I knew it was a low number. Now if I can only get my sub grounded properly. I have been looking at svs cylinder subs. That pc-ultra would look awsome beside my monitor 11s. Dosen't look like it goes as loud as my pw-2200 on the spec sheet though.

 

[soulfly]

Well I finally got it back. They finally changed the transformer. The sub seams to be working great. The only problem is that it fried my subwoofer output on my avr-7300. Anybody want a used avr-7300 with a non working sub output. I have it hooked into the right output for now so I have something. This thing will be a pain to send off for repairs.

 

[u2generator]

I'm glad they finally fixed the thing. I know virtually nothing about subs but I know an RCA jack shouldn’t be reading anything near 50 volts. Will they help you out with you’re A/V since the sub was the problem?

Good Luck,

TW

 

[wafflebird]

Man I was so afraid of mentioing that that I didn't say it!!!!!!!!!!!!

VOltage flows like water and I was very afraid that would happen and of course you would not find out until now. That really sucks man and I am really sorry to hear that. I feel Paradigm should pay for the repair and I would at least try especially since you sent it back so many times. Of course my frinds call me the Pit Bull on things like this and take me along if they have trouble, I know I am a pain in the backside to companies. I wish you well which ever way it goes and hope you come out as unscathed as possible.

 

[soulfly]

Well I tweaked my settings this weekend and I think I can live with it. I told my reciever that I didn't have a sub so all the bass goes to my mains. My mains are crossed-over at 60hz so they wont get damaged and my right preout isn't affected by the cross-over so I'm still getting all my bass. The tank seen in Saving Private Ryan still shakes the walls. I just don't have all the control over the levels like I did before.
A repair guy for H/K said that if it was the main board it wouldn't be fixable. I took the cover off and there are 3 layers of circiut boards connected by vertical circiut boards with the main on the bottom with the preouts connected to it.
I guess I'll just have to wait for seperates. Sure would be sweet with a Rotel setup if they only had 7 chnl amps. Could always go with their recievers, that was my orginal choice till I found this awsome deal on H/K. Whished Onecall still had them in stock. A couple of months ago they were saleing for 850.
The Outlaw and Emotive processors don't look to bad and I could make my H/K my amp for now. I just hate to wast all those video features. I got to go plant my money tree to feed my taste.