Sub on $1,300 budget

[canelli]

I have been given the green light to get a sub for Christmas, and I have narrowed it down to a few choices. I would greatly appreciate some feedback. My head is starting to swirl from reading posts, opinions, and reviews. Also, I am a little confused as to what should be included in the volume of the room since I know that plays such a large factor in selection.

Needs:
Small foot print since floor space is a premium
Would like a sub capable of blending well with 683s
Musical but enough punch for home theater (probably more interest in good clean musical over power)

Current System:
Speakers: Pair of B&W 683s (Finish Black Ash)
Receiver: Pioneer SC-5

Location:
The placement will be in our den 2,600 ft3 that has two walls and opens to both the kitchen and a walk way extending to the front door. The kitchen is 2,100 ft3 feet while the walk adds another 2,000 ft3. I am not sure how much of the walk way I should include in determining the volume so I’ll show both.
Volume with Kitchen: 4,700 ft3
Volume with Kitchen and Walk way: 6,700 ft3

Option 1: B&W ASW610XP
Approximate Price: $1,200
Pros: Finish will match other speakers, 500 Watt B&W, fairly small foot print, wife approved
Cons: Feels pricey, might lack getting down low, does it have enough power?, lacks fine tuning controls

Option 2: Epik Vanquich
Approximate Price: $700
Pros: Small footprint, 600 watt, appears highly regarded within the forums, price
Cons: Question about the finish and unable to see one in person (finish is a big one for the wife), Out of stock

Options 3: SVS SB12-Plus
Approximate Price: $700
Pros: Small footprint, price
Cons: No longer being manufactured, Charcoal gray no longer available, At 435 watt does it have enough power?

Option 4: Velodyne Optimum-12
Approximate Price: $1,100
Pros: Good reviews, 1200 watts, remote, self adjusting
Cons: Pushes the size limit, is the finish too glossy?, not sure where to view on in person.


Lots of thanks

 

[shadyJ]

A couple more you should look at are the Rythmik F12SE, and the Outlaw Audio ECS-10. The sale on the outlaw ends tomorrow so don't wait on that one if you think you want it. I think either would be good. Also, I think you are assigning too much importance to amplifier power, don't get too hung up on that particular spec.

 

[njedpx3]

A Vote for Option3 - SVS SB12-Plus

I have been given the green light to get a sub for Christmas, and I have narrowed it down to a few choices. I would greatly appreciate some feedback. My head is starting to swirl from reading posts, opinions, and reviews. Also, I am a little confused as to what should be included in the volume of the room since I know that plays such a large factor in selection.

Needs:
Small foot print since floor space is a premium
Would like a sub capable of blending well with 683s
Musical but enough punch for home theater (probably more interest in good clean musical over power)

Current System:
Speakers: Pair of B&W 683s (Finish Black Ash)
Receiver: Pioneer SC-5

Location:
The placement will be in our den 2,600 ft3 that has two walls and opens to both the kitchen and a walk way extending to the front door. The kitchen is 2,100 ft3 feet while the walk adds another 2,000 ft3. I am not sure how much of the walk way I should include in determining the volume so I’ll show both.
Volume with Kitchen: 4,700 ft3
Volume with Kitchen and Walk way: 6,700 ft3

Option 1: B&W ASW610XP
Approximate Price: $1,200
Pros: Finish will match other speakers, 500 Watt B&W, fairly small foot print, wife approved
Cons: Feels pricey, might lack getting down low, does it have enough power?, lacks fine tuning controls

Option 2: Epik Vanquich
Approximate Price: $700
Pros: Small footprint, 600 watt, appears highly regarded within the forums, price
Cons: Question about the finish and unable to see one in person (finish is a big one for the wife), Out of stock

Options 3: SVS SB12-Plus
Approximate Price: $700
Pros: Small footprint, price
Cons: No longer being manufactured, Charcoal gray no longer available, At 435 watt does it have enough power?

Option 4: Velodyne Optimum-12
Approximate Price: $1,100
Pros: Good reviews, 1200 watts, remote, self adjusting
Cons: Pushes the size limit, is the finish too glossy?, not sure where to view on in person.


Lots of thanks

I like Option 3. I have the SVS PB12-Plus . SVS has excellent quality and excellent Customer Support. I would not worry about the SVS SB12-Plus being discontinued- support and quality and sound excellence will still be there!

Remember power is logarithmic .. the other options won't really be that much louder --SVSs can play very LOUD.

Good Luck!

Forest Man

 

[Knucklehead90]

Elemental Designs has the A5s-300 thats half the price of the B&W and much better specs. Size is similar. Call them for other finishes available. They do custom finish work on their subs.

 

[canelli]

Option 4: Velodyne Optimum-12

I noticed that no one had a comment about this sub. Just curious as to why.

 

[WmAx]

My friend, if you can even do the most BASIC of handywork, you need to exclude all of the commercial products.

For $1300, you can use off the shelf parts (and a pre-finished cabinet) to assemble a sub of FAR higher performance than any commercial unit of similar price. The only thing you have to do is be able to use a jig saw to cut the right size holes in the pre-fab cabinet and use a screw driver to attach the stuff.

I'll specify all parts and sources if you are interested.

-Chris

 

[canelli]

WmAx

Ok, I am tad curious about your solution.

One problem is that I might not have a review of the exact setup, but I am willing to listen.

 

[WmAx]

WmAx

Ok, I am tad curious about your solution.

One problem is that I might not have a review of the exact setup, but I am willing to listen.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=653033#post653033

The above set up exactly as described, but using the JL 8W7 driver, not the 10W7. And a PAIR of subwoofers cabinets, not a single. This will get you within your budget and result in SUPERB SQ and SPL levels using top quality world class drivers. In addition, dual subs, one placed near each main speaker, results in more coherent/seamless bass transition for music reproduction.

The 8" W7 easily bests most high quality 12" conventional subwoofers in actual testing - so do not let the fact that it's an 8" driver deceive you.

If you are willing to go over your budget by $300, then use the 10W7 drivers.

While you may not have a 'review' of this subwoofer system to read. I offer it's design based on my extensive knowledge and real world measurements/performance of the hardware used in the design.

-Chris

 

[djreef]

I like Option 3. I have the SVS PB12-Plus . SVS has excellent quality and excellent Customer Support. I would not worry about the SVS SB12-Plus being discontinued- support and quality and sound excellence will still be there!

Remember power is logarithmic .. the other options won't really be that much louder --SVSs can play very LOUD.

Good Luck!

Forest Man

The SB-12plus is going to b too small given the size of the room and the app. You might consider 2 for the job, but one will have a difficult time cutting it.

If you could wait a couple of months SVS is revamping their sealed box line as we speak, to b hopefully re-introduced around the first of the year.

or you could check the B-stock listing on a regular basis and see if anything pops up in your range. https://svsound.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=12

DJ

 

[monsterman]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=653033#post653033

The above set up exactly as described, but using the JL 8W7 driver, not the 10W7. And a PAIR of subwoofers cabinets, not a single. This will get you within your budget and result in SUPERB SQ and SPL levels using top quality world class drivers. In addition, dual subs, one placed near each main speaker, results in more coherent/seamless bass transition for music reproduction.

The 8" W7 easily bests most high quality 12" conventional subwoofers in actual testing - so do not let the fact that it's an 8" driver deceive you.

If you are willing to go over your budget by $300, then use the 10W7 drivers.

While you may not have a 'review' of this subwoofer system to read. I offer it's design based on my extensive knowledge and real world measurements/performance of the hardware used in the design.

-Chris

Makes me want to get a 8W7 and drop a 1k plate amp on the back and crush it.

 

[Torqueaholic]

for about $600, i'd pick up a Velodyne MiniVee 1000W Subwoofer! Nice deep loud bass, with no distortion at all! You can tell, I like to bring the house down! lol!

 

[WmAx]

for about $600, i'd pick up a Velodyne MiniVee 1000W Subwoofer! Nice deep loud bass, with no distortion at all! You can tell, I like to bring the house down! lol!

While I'm sure it's a nice sub, Velodyne has not exactly demonstrated significant performance in measured performance vs. dollars spent. Forget the minivee... the high end DD series... take the DD12... the relatively low cost Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 driver in a sealed cabinet, with an under-sized amplifier, outperforms this 'high end' and high cost Velodyne product. It would not be at at all fair, for example, to compare the MiniVee to one of the solutions I recommended using W7 JL Audio drivers; complete obliteration of the Velodyne product is the only expected result. But the JL W7 8" can in real life, offer higher performance than many high quality 12" conventional drivers.

Here is SPL vs. THD, 2 Meters Ground Plane, of both a DIY Kappa Perfect in sealed cabinet with an amp that can barely produce 200 watts(and starting to clip heavy at lower frequencies) vs. the high powered, high end, servo controlled DD12, at both 95 and 100 dB anechoic conditions:

95

100

The DIY Perfect just about trumps it across most of the bandwidth as you go to higher SPLs, using a severely underpowered amp. The W7 drivers offer FAR more performance.

-Chris

 

[bandphan]

for about $600, i'd pick up a Velodyne MiniVee 1000W Subwoofer! Nice deep loud bass, with no distortion at all! You can tell, I like to bring the house down! lol!

Micro V

SPL8

 

[t3steve]

I would go with Wmax's recommendation, I built one of his designs and it really does sound better than anything else in the price range (or even double the price).

Steve

 

[canelli]

First, I want to say thanks to everyone and their suggestions. I am slowly making sense of everything.
The primary driving forces are now size, quality, looks, and probably in that order with quality and looks being very close.
As much as I would like two subs, I am struggling to find space for one. My den just doesn’t have the room available.

My Take from other people’s reviews / opinions so take it for what it’s worth:
B&W ASW610XP- Expense and dated performance (no longer on wish list unless I can’t find a sub that matches decor)

SVS SB12-Plus – Good performer but the PB12-Plus is nice upgrade (PB-12 and PB13 are just too big) No longer available of the black color that I need.

Velodyne – They seem like nice subs but are pricey for their performance when compared to DIY and direct stores. The big plus is that the SPL and Optimum 10” and maybe 12” will fit and look great.

eD A5s-300 – I have read a lot about eD products and generally are regarded well. I spoke with them about a custom finish and the price increase wouldn’t be substantial. The question is what am I giving up for with a smaller sealed sub? Also, I am back to having to fight the looks / finish. (I do want to mention I spoke with Matt at eD and was very helpful.) Looks like a nicer fit due to price and size, but what about performance?

With regards to WmAx’s suggestion (DIY), I have been considering this option more and more. Oh, and thanks for the endorsement t3Steve. It does make a significant impact on my decision knowing others are happy with WmAx’s build.
The suggested enclosure 302-847 is a tad larger than I have room to accommodate. I really will struggle to find a place for the 19 wide by 18 deep. Are there any suggestions on a taller box with a smaller footprint? 16x16 would be ideal.
Also, the JL 10W7-3 looks like a winner. It shows that it can handle 750 watts but 350 to 500 watts is the sweet spot. It’s a 3 ohm speaker.
The Bash 500W looks like a good fit. I wish it had more controls to compensate for tuning since speaker placement is down to one option. I think there is a Bash 750 that is more robust all the way around but I have not found a place that I can order it and not sure what it would do to the budget. The user’s manual warns against going below 4 ohms with the 500w. How big of issue is that?

With WmAx’s suggestion, how will the finished product look? Can you share pictures?