sub for nyc apartment

[metal432]

I just bought a pair of Polk Audio TSI200s and love them to death, but think that a sub is necessary to pick up the bottom end that these speakers aren't capable of reaching. Here's the info:

Room size: 21' by 13' (270 sq feet)
Listening: 95% music, 5% movies. I listen to a lot of rock (classic, indie, etc.) and dance music like dub and other heavy low end music
Requirements: Size isn't too much of an issue, but my neighbors are noise-sensitive and don't want to be extremely obnoxious. I don't listen to music at very high volumes, so the better that the sub can sound at lower volumes without being pushed, the better.
Budget: <$450

I owned the PSW10 for a while but returned it because it didn't really like the sound that much. Are Polk's higher end subs significantly better? I'm definitely fine with looking at other brands, and am not committed to getting a Polk sub. Thanks!

 

[sholling]

For an apartment the little Emo Ultra 12 would be a great fit. It doesn't dig super deep (22hz claimed - real world it rolls off around 30hz) but it sounds absolutely superb. A very tight little sealed sub. And it's still on sale. As with any subwoofer in an apartment I'd put it on an isolation pad, perhaps a subdude. Set your receiver's crossover around 70-80hz and let the sub do the heavy lifting.

 

[BufordTJustice]

As Sholling said, the Sub12 would be a very good solution.

Elemental Designs offers subwoofer isolation pads for nearly all of their subwoofers. I don't really think that it will matter what type of sub you choose, as long as it's on an iso-pad.

eD and SVS also offer some competitively priced sealed 12" subwoofers; they offer more performance than the Emotiva, but they are also more expensive.

You could also maybe go with dual Emotiva Sub12's or Sub10's on iso-pads?

Can't emphasize the iso-pad enough.

For really good LOW-end music, a SVS PB10 NSD or PB12 NSD (w/ Sledge amp) or eD A2-300 or eD A3-250......all on iso-pads would be VERY good at diggin deep in your price range. HSU subs are also quite musical.

Polk subs are a very expensive line of one-beat paper weights. You won't find many on this board (or any others) who like Polk subwoofers at any price. NO offense.

 

[metal432]

Thanks for the recommendations, I was considering the HSU STF-2 before this, but i'm intrigued by the emo ultra 12. Does the 12 have any significant advantages over the 10? My apartment really isn't that big, and like I mentioned in my first post, I don't want to be that obnoxious neighbor.

 

[BufordTJustice]

Thanks for the recommendations, I was considering the HSU STF-2 before this, but i'm intrigued by the emo ultra 12. Does the 12 have any significant advantages over the 10? My apartment really isn't that big, and like I mentioned in my first post, I don't want to be that obnoxious neighbor.

I can't really answer your question because I have not heard the 10" or seen instrumented test numbers from it.

The HSU STF-2 would be a very good solution for you if high output is not a factor for you.

The Emotiva (and other small sealed subwoofers) have to fight a natural roll-off in output below about 45hz due to their sealed alignment and small box dimensions. The HSU would appear to dig deeper to your ears...it would also sound great for music.

Outlaw subwoofers are designed and tuned by Dr. HSU (and consequently, use very similar cabinet dimensions to HSU branded subs)...you can occasionally find a used Outlaw LFM plus or LFM1-EX on sale on audiogon for CHEAP. I say this because the STF-2 has a 10" driver and both the above Outlaw offerings have 12" drivers and more powerful amplifiers as compared to the STF2 (they are basically equivalent to HSU VTF2-Mk3 and VTF3-Mk3 subs).

Point being: the HSU offerings will give you flatter (and deeper un-EQ'd) in room response than the sealed subwoofer offerings. When deciding among quality subwoofers, you can never have 'too much sub'. Quality subs sound accurate no mater how hard (or soft) they're being driven.....you can always turn a (quality) big sub down...it's impossible to turn a sub that's already at its limits UP. Can't do it. So buying more sub than you absolutely need is actually important. As you get exposed to good quality bass, you're gonna naturally want more of it.

For the record, my first real subwoofer was a HSU VTF-2 (the original). It is, acoustically, nearly identical to the current HSU STF-2. Mine had a 10" driver and 175 watt amp...STF-2 has same driver and 200 watt amp. I loved my HSU, but eventually found myself listening to more music and movies with true low frequency content (yes, in a wood framed apartment). This led me to buy a used eD A2-300. Again, being satisfied with the HUGE increase in performance I thought my search for bass had ended. Well, I moved to another house with a bigger listening room and I ended up with an eD A7s-450 (18" sealed). If you would have told me I would have spent $850 on an enormous 18" sealed subwoofer with a 1300 watt amp when I bought the HSU...I'd have told you where to stick it. Yet, here I am. You're in a different boat, but subs are difficult commodities to move when you want to sell since you have to pack it and ship it (NOT CHEAP). So it's sell local or take an enormous hit. So buy cheap, buy twice. Buy right, cry once.

 

[shadyJ]

Buford, I know that story very well! If you had told me I would end up with a ULS-15 dual drive when I bought my first real sub, the STF2, I would have thought you were crazy. But damn, I didn't know how much I would enjoy these things!

 

[sholling]

Thanks for the recommendations, I was considering the HSU STF-2 before this, but i'm intrigued by the emo ultra 12. Does the 12 have any significant advantages over the 10? My apartment really isn't that big, and like I mentioned in my first post, I don't want to be that obnoxious neighbor.

The little Hsu is a really good little subwoofer and should be able to handle 2500cuft at medium volumes. Because it's a vented sub (and a Hsu) it'll reach its full fated 25hz and it should be really easy to setup. However because it's a downfiring sub having an appropriately sized subwoofer isolation pad under it is a must to keep the downstairs neighbors happy. For roughly the same price (with shipping factored in) the slightly larger Elemental Designs A2-300 is a bit more capable but eD usually has a bit of a wait - always confirm ETA when shopping eD. You'll also need a bit larger pad to go with the A2-300.

The sealed Emotivas are a whole different animal. They are much smaller with a very-very detailed sound but as Buford stated without a bass port they naturally want to roll off pretty high. The designers use built in eq circuitry and raw horsepower to keep the frequency response flat down to ~30 (Ultra 12) where it falls off quickly. Sealed subs rely on the room itself and placement to boost low frequencies. I haven't heard an Ultra 10 but I own an Ultra 12 and IMO a sealed 10" might struggle in a room that size and the Ultra 12 digs a tiny bit deeper. If you go sealed you'll want to place the sub carefully to take advantage of room gain.

What to choose? If you were a big action movie watcher in a house then a big ground pounding vented sub would be a no brainer. If the use is 90% music the answer would be simple if your taste were jazz, classical, and/or classic rock - the Ultra 12 because those genres have little or no energy below 35-40hz and both jazz and classical have a lot of detail in the bass. Electronic dance style music (techno, house, etc) can hit those pounding 20hz notes but have little or no detail to the bass. You'll have to figure out your priorities.

 

[BufordTJustice]

The little Hsu is a really good little subwoofer and should be able to handle 2500cuft at medium volumes. Because it's a vented sub (and a Hsu) it'll reach its full fated 25hz and it should be really easy to setup. However because it's a downfiring sub having an appropriately sized subwoofer isolation pad under it is a must to keep the downstairs neighbors happy. For roughly the same price (with shipping factored in) the slightly larger Elemental Designs A2-300 is a bit more capable but eD usually has a bit of a wait - always confirm ETA when shopping eD. You'll also need a bit larger pad to go with the A2-300.

The sealed Emotivas are a whole different animal. They are much smaller with a very-very detailed sound but as Buford stated without a bass port they naturally want to roll off pretty high. The designers use built in eq circuitry and raw horsepower to keep the frequency response flat down to ~30 (Ultra 12) where it falls off quickly. Sealed subs rely on the room itself and placement to boost low frequencies. I haven't heard an Ultra 10 but I own an Ultra 12 and IMO a sealed 10" might struggle in a room that size and the Ultra 12 digs a tiny bit deeper. If you go sealed you'll want to place the sub carefully to take advantage of room gain.

What to choose? If you were a big action movie watcher in a house then a big ground pounding vented sub would be a no brainer. If the use is 90% music the answer would be simple if your taste were jazz, classical, and/or classic rock - the Ultra 12 because those genres have little or no energy below 35-40hz and both jazz and classical have a lot of detail in the bass. Electronic dance style music (techno, house, etc) can hit those pounding 20hz notes but have little or no detail to the bass. You'll have to figure out your priorities.

All I can say is +1

 

[HexOmega]

For that size room, those types of music, and that budget:

How about the SVS PB10-NSD on closeout for $499?

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

 

[metal432]

I ended up going with the Emo Sub 10, and I AM ECSTATIC!!!!! This sub is EXACTLY what's been missing from my sound system, and compliments the music I listen to so accurately, even some heavier electronic dance music. Granted, this sub is not meant to throw you across the room with its bass, which is not what I wanted considering i'm in an apartment, but for the consumer group that it is targeted towards, I cannot imagine a better value purchase out there.

Edit: I forgot to say, THANK YOU to the people who've responded in this thread, because I didn't even know what this sub was before posting on here. You all are so knowledgeable about this stuff, and give advice based on what the person is asking even if it's not the sub you would buy for yourselves for your own needs.