Stupid Volume Control Question

[randy98ss]

I have owned mostly Yamaha receivers and all the volume numbers start in the negative numbers and are measured in db's.

Are all the volume controls that same between models and brands of receivers? Meaning is -20db the same in my Yamaha as it is in a Denon?

How accuratatly do these number represent the actual decible levels?

At what volume level do you normally watch a movie?

 

[jamie2112]

No all AVR's are different. The reason's they are different are many but the most obvious is the wattage factor. An AVR with 65 watts a channel is going to have totally different volume increments than one with 120 watts a channel. As far as the Yammy vs the Denon they are totally different as I own both companies AVR's. You can get a Db meter to measure your volume in your HT.And as far as listening volume listen to a level thats comfortable for your ears. There is no set volume to listen to movies, it is listener comfort factor. Use your own judgment on how loud to listen. By the way 101db is loud....

 

[Adam]

Jamie, your answer surprises me because it's not what I expected. I would think that receivers with digital volume controls that are in dB increments would have the same change in volume per dB increment. Regarding if a certain volume setting would be the same (e.g. "-20dB"), that would depend on the reference level set at "0dB" on each receiver.

I completely agree that volume settings from one receiver to the next in general are not necessarily the same (and have been different in my experience, too). For me, though, that's been with older receivers that used analog volume controls with potentiometers that didn't allow for the reference level to be set after the speakers were connected.

Now I'm curious. I don't have experience with a lot of brands in my own home in which I've measured the differences myself, so I'm wondering if my thoughts regarding the digital volume controls are correct. Any insight from you all would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[randy98ss]

No all AVR's are different. The reason's they are different are many but the most obvious is the wattage factor. An AVR with 65 watts a channel is going to have totally different volume increments than one with 120 watts a channel. As far as the Yammy vs the Denon they are totally different as I own both companies AVR's. You can get a Db meter to measure your volume in your HT.And as far as listening volume listen to a level thats comfortable for your ears. There is no set volume to listen to movies, it is listener comfort factor. Use your own judgment on how loud to listen. By the way 101db is loud....

Does this mean that -20db's for 65 watt avr is differnet then -20db's for a 120 watt avr?

Or does it mean that it requires more "volume" for the 65 watt avr to reach -20db's.

 

[fmw]

Regarding if a certain volume setting would be the same (e.g. "-20dB"), that would depend on the reference level set at "0dB" on each receiver.

It is a little silly. Some receiver manufacturers just use numbers and that makes more sense.

In pro audio, 0db is the clipping point. Digital recordings have to stay below that to avoid quantization errors. Obviously, 0db is not necessarily the clipping point on a receiver. Using db is silly also because the actually sound pressure level has more to do with the room and speakers than it does the receiver. Completely ignore the db numbers on the display except as a reference for setting the volume level you prefer or want at the moment. The "values" have no meaning at all.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When I had the Harman kardon AVR-247, I always set the volume to -15 dB for movies and music. I believe this came out to be around 85 dB on my sound meter.

 

[MDS]

If you search for 'reference level' or 'relative volume' you'll find that this topic has been discussed many times and yet most are still confused. Perhaps rightly so because the numbers used for digital audio have different meanings in different contexts (particularly '0 dB').

1. 0 dB as a level means the sample value is at its maximum; eg. using 16 bit audio on a CD, 0 dB would be a sample value of +32767 or -32768. All values are expressed as a negative offset from that max.

2. 0 dB referring to Sound Pressure Level is the bottom of the scale and for all intents and purposes is silence.

3. 0 dB on the receiver volume scale is an arbitrary designation, but one that is very convenient as I'll explain once again. There is no difference between a scale that goes from 0 to 100 ('absolute volume display') and one that goes from -80 to +20 ('relative volume display'). In fact, some receivers, like Onkyo, allow you to switch between the two at any time.

If one receiver uses the absolute display and is calibrated so that 60 is reference level and another receiver that uses the relative display is calibrated so that 0 is reference level then they produce the same SPL when the first one is at 60 and the second is at 0. Bump the absolute display to 61 and the SPL is reference+1; likewise bump the relative display to +1 and the SPL is reference+1. They were calibrated to the same reference level and being decibel accurate, incrementing or decrementing that number on the display changes the output by +/- 1 dB.

The relative display is just more convenient: If you calibrate so that 0 on the display is your reference level (whether you used Dolby Reference Level or some other level of your own choosing), then when the display reads -10 dB you can see at a glance that the SPL is 10 dB below your reference level. With the absolute display (and using 60 as the reference), when the display is on 50, you have to do the math and calculate 60 - 50 = 10, I'm 10 dB below the reference. That's it. The display could use aa - ZZ and the concept would be exactly the same.

 

[mtrycrafts]

A bit off topic but how well did you guys survive?
You have power I see

 

[unreal.freak]

I have an older Yamaha 5.1 unit i believe it is 110 watts rms per channel. I usually turn it up to -45 when im watching a movie. Im not sure how that compares to what it is reading with a sound meter. Hope you are able to get all the answeres you are looking for.


Peace,
Tommy

 

[poutanen]

I always thought the -dB scale on an AVR was level of attenuation? In other words, if I'm running a CD player at 'X' level, and I turn my receiver up to 0 dB, then it's passing the signal though to the pre-outs (and the built in amp) at 'X'.

If I run it at -20 dB, the signal at the pre-outs would be 'X'-20 dB...

Is this not right?

By the way 101db is loud....

+1 I hit 107 dB in my listening position and thought it was bloody loud. I got a sustained 113 dB once in the centre of my room through my mains alone! That actually hurt a little....

 

[BMXTRIX]

I always thought the -dB scale on an AVR was level of attenuation? In other words, if I'm running a CD player at 'X' level, and I turn my receiver up to 0 dB, then it's passing the signal though to the pre-outs (and the built in amp) at 'X'.

If I run it at -20 dB, the signal at the pre-outs would be 'X'-20 dB...

Is this not right?

I've heard this is not correct, but I haven't heard an answer that makes sense to me yet beyond this.

I would think that 0db would be a line level source passed from the preamp stage of an A/V receiver onto the amplification stage of the receiver without gain or attenuation first. This is the way digital mixing seems to work, and this seems to be similar. If the amps are larger, then 0dB seems louder. Of the amps are weaker, then 0dB seems quieter. Likewise with more/lesser efficient speakers. Or external amps with gobs of power.

I could be completely wrong, but if I were designing a receiver, then that is what I would likely be basing things from because it makes a lot of sense to me to do so. That way, if someone is using some external process to adjust volume (???) then they could set the receiver to 0dB and simply pass audio through the receiver without affecting audio levels.

Just my guess though.