Stating my ignorance and looking for opinions

[pzaur]

Alright, my wife finally gave me a go ahead to purchase some new speakers (and receiver if budget allows) for the house. I've been begging for this for the past few years since I love to listen to classical and jazz music and the itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny Sony paperweights never cut it for me. Never could figure it out...always liked the sound at my parents through their set of Klipsch Quartets...go figure I wouldn't like the little Sony black boxes.

Anyways, I'm not going to be able to audition everything I want to and would like to understand the technical specifications, especially range, that are listed. Can y'all shed some light? What's a good "Frequency Response" range? What and how important is "Sensitivity"? I've seen it listed from mid 80s to mid 90s. Should I be looking at other speaker specs?

Example of what I really want to understand:
Taken from the vanns.com website and the Klipsch RF15 (good price btw)

Frequency Response: 46Hz-20kHz +/-3dB
Sensitivity: 96 dB @ 2.83 Volts/1 Meter


Since you're all gonna ask, here are the details of the 'go ahead'
Opinions/suggestions are welcome, as long as my original questions have been answered!!

I'm allotted ~$750 with a little budge room (not much)
I'm considering these:
Axiom M50 v2
Axiom M22 v2
Klipsch RF10
Klipsch RF15
Infinity Primus P252
Infinity Primus 250

I'm also going to replace the receiver and will do so now if the budget allows. We need something that is able to run A/B (prefer A & B) speakers since we have outdoor speaker capability. HDMI is not important.
Pioneer VSX816K
Yamaha HTR5950

thanks
-pat

(looking forward to unloading the Shtony HTiB one piece at a time...)

 

[skizzerflake]

The key is to listen, listen, listen. Numbers about speakers are mainly worthless, except for some minimal guidance about the extension range of the speaker. They are heavily dependent on the listening environment and you will never duplicate the manufacturer's performance (for better or worse). Listen using disks that you are familiar with. Sensitivity will suggest how much amp power you need, less sensitive...more power required, but don't worry too much unless you really push loudness to the limits since amp power/loudness is exponential and you only use the max for short bursts.

 

[rexracer]

You didn't say what your $750 had to buy. Receiver and 2 speakers? 2+ ctr, 5 speakers, or a complete 5.1 setup? I'm looking to buy a 5.1 setup, but it's gonna come in at about $1000 with what I will probably get. If I "downgraded" the receiver and sub, I could almost reach your price point.

Lets see;
Pioneer vsx-816 $260
2 pair Infinity Primus 150 $240
1 Infinity Primus c-25 $100
HSU STF-1 $250
______
$850

 

[zumbo]

$699.90 shipped!
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC500

While my explaination may not be the best, it will give you an idea. I will go by the specs given for the speaker I have recommended.


Nominal Impedence: 8 ohms; Minimum Impedance: 4 ohms
Frequency Response: 35 Hz-20 kHz +/- 3 dB
Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic):30 Hz
Sensitivity: anechoic 91 dB; 2 speakers in a typical room 94 dB

Impedence: The speaker is 8ohm. Typically, you want to pick an 8ohm(nominal) speaker for use with a mid-fi receiver. A 4ohm(nominal) speaker requires more current, and that can be a huge task for a receiver, even some seperate amps.

Frequency Response: Your hearing is from 20Hz-20kHz. This is considered fullrange. The closer a speaker is to this, the better. This doesn't mean it is a better sounding speaker. It means it is capable of reproducing every sound. The 35Hz in the above spec is in reference to how low (bass) the speaker can reproduce. This is a very respectable spec at this pricepoint.

Most speakers will make it to 20kHz (treble). Again, this spec has nothing to do with the sound quality. Just the ability to reproduce the frequency.

The speaker claims a useable bass response to 30Hz @ -10db Anechoic. While I don't know the technical meaning, this is a respectable measurement for a 6.5 as well.

Sensitivity is how loud the speaker will play with 1watt applied @ a 1meter distance. The higher this number, the louder the speaker will be. This speaker has a 91db rating. Again, this is very good.

I would choose Energy over any speaker in your list.

 

[pzaur]

The biggest thing I'm looking for is a pair of decent front speakers that I'll be content with for a long time. I know that I need to go and listen to as many as I can and find the set I love the most...
I already have a receiver, but it will need to be replaced to take advantage of the outdoor setup on the patio. This can wait. But, if there is enough money left over, I'll spring for it ASAP. Of course, I'd love to get both speakers & receiver now. If it weren't for the Axiom M50s being in the list, this wouldn't really be much of a question.

I've always like the look and sound of tower speakers. I don't have much background experience with bookshelf speakers and am a little hesitant with them. I'll be heading to Ultimate Electronics to start my listening travels and go from there. Locally, there aren't many places to audition speakers with out purchasing (Gilbert, AZ).

I s'pose the implied question from my original post is "Which of the speakers listed would you choose for listening to purely music? Or would you go a different route in that price range" I'm not a huge TV watcher and I crank the classical/jazz whenever I can.

Zumbo, you answered my question for the specs! Thank you! I'm assuming that your use of the Energy C500s would a suggestion?

-pat

 

[zumbo]

Zumbo, you answered my question for the specs! Thank you! I'm assuming that your use of the Energy C500s would a suggestion?

-pat

No. I use current hungry 4ohm, low sensitivity 87dB, MB Quart.

However, it is my opinion that the Energy speakers are better than the ones you listed.

I have heard Klipsch, and I do not like them at all.

Infinity are smoother than Klipsch, but not my cup-o-tea.

I have never heard Axiom, but the M50's look to be the best in your list.

I believe an audition of Polk Audio may fit the bill for you. I like them better than Infinity, Klipsch, or JBL. But, I would still choose the Energy over them.

 

[zumbo]

Monitor Audio dealers. GO, GO, GO!
http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/index.htm

HUDSON SOUND GILBERT, AZ 85234

16933 E. Guadalupe

480/231-1061 By Appointment Only

HI FI SALES, INC. MESA, AZ 85201

810 W. Main Street Web Site

480/969-1338

4 PEAKS HOME ENTERTAINMENT TEMPE, AZ 85283

5861 S. Kyrene Rd. Ste. #10

480/726-3344 * By Appointment Only

SHOWCASE HOME ENTERTAINMENT CHANDLER, AZ 85226

7131 West Ray Road

480/785-5800

ARIZONA HOME AUDIO VIDEO SOLUTIONS TEMPE, AZ 85282

5018 S. Juniper Web Site

480/570-1606

 

[emorphien]

I'd also probably choose the axioms from your list (and probably over the energy speakers), however what does your room look like, how is it finished? Axioms are extended and rather forward in presentation and while I don't find them unpleasant they are bright. You might want to consider some room treatments no matter what you buy if you can do them in your room. For the budget minded Axioms have been pretty good for jazz in my experience.

I don't know those infinity speakers but the Axioms and the Klipschs are all pretty easy to drive. Depending on the size of your room you won't need much power for them. These aren't like Zumbo's and mine 4ohm 86.5-87db speakers, they will be easy to feed with just about anything.

 

[pzaur]

The room they'll be placed in is a great room that feeds in to the kitchen/dining area with wood floors. There are two large couches with a very large area rug in the same vicinity.
A buddy and I will be going around town later today (after his beloved Bruins finish...) to listen. I'll have to extend the itinerary with Zumbo's additions!

-pat

 

[zumbo]

The room they'll be placed in is a great room that feeds in to the kitchen/dining area with wood floors. There are two large couches with a very large area rug in the same vicinity.
A buddy and I will be going around town later today (after his beloved Bruins finish...) to listen. I'll have to extend the itinerary with Zumbo's additions!

-pat

I would check-out Polk, and Monitor Audio. At your pricepoint, these brands from a local dealer may be your best bet.

I prefer Monitor Audio over Polk. It's preference. Depends on you.

Is that Samuel Adams in your avatar? Boston Ale is my beer of choice! Beer, much like speakers, is based on preference.

Please come back to this thread after you audition. Hearing people's personal preference of speakers is my favorite part of the forum.

 

[Seth=L]

The Energy speakers look pretty good, easy to drive. Axiom does appear to have better specs, but as mentioned before they are very foward. They probably sound very good with a good source, but probably sound bad with poor recordings (they will likely show all mistakes in the recordings). The Axioms are more efficient to the watt and have a lower frequency responce than the Energys.

Good luck with whatever you chose.

 

[allsop4now]

No. I use current hungry 4ohm, low sensitivity 87dB, MB Quart.

Like my speakers Adding a subwoofer helps, unless you mainly listen to sonatas for solo violin or have powerful amplifiers.

To answer the OP:

Since he mainly listen to classical/jazz he may want a subwoofer for the lowest octaves of a piano or a bass guitar (http://www.har-bal.com/images/frequency_chart_lg.gif) A floorstander that goes deep is usually big and expensive, and by planning for listening with a subwoofer he may buy smaller floorstanders that sounds very nice but lacking in deeper bass (and not nearly as expensive). A subwoofer may be bought later when money permits, and good deals may be made.

This is what I did, anyway

Now, how deep should a speaker go when using a subwoofer? For my part I "knew" (i.e. fairly sure) the crossover would be set to 80Hz by the DVD player when playing SACD multi-channel, so my floorstanders has f3 (-3dB) somewhere between 45 and 50Hz is sufficient. Having a small child meant that big floorstanders was out of the question anyway, for me, anyway. Now, my surrounds have an f3 of just below 70Hz, so I sort of regret those a little, but I got them for a very good price....

According to Paul Scarpelli of Triad Speakers, speakers with f3 below 50Hz is not really needed when using a subwoofer.

Note that impedance varies with frequency. Have a look at the following measurements of my floorstanders: http://www.canton.de/download-test-Ergo702DC_Stereoplay.htm

Canton Ergo speakers (that I have) are not very sensitive, ranging from 86.5 to 87.9 for my surround 5.1 surround set. The point is that a 3 dB increase in sensitivity roughly corresponds to a halving of required power output from the reciever to produce the same level of sound pressure. For me, along with a subwoofer, the Onkyo TX-SR674E works very well. Playing with volume of 65 of a scale of 100 is plenty loud for my room (1600 cubic feets), and that is when the CD is mastered "low volume". Note that the European versions of Onkyo recievers have an software impedance switch for use with low impendance speakers that the North American does not have.

 

[allsop4now]

The room they'll be placed in is a great room that feeds in to the kitchen/dining area with wood floors. There are two large couches with a very large area rug in the same vicinity.
A buddy and I will be going around town later today (after his beloved Bruins finish...) to listen. I'll have to extend the itinerary with Zumbo's additions!

-pat

Depending what you mean with "great room" and what you listen to, a subwoofer will probably be needed. If you decide that you most likely will use a subwoofer in the future, there is little need spend money on speakers that goes deep.

 

[chpwaman]

Regarding the Axioms...you have 30 days to try them out. It won't take too much research to find the great reviews for the M22's paired with a sub. There are a lot of great sub recommendations you can find through the search feature and the reviews. You can probably accomplish this within your $750 budget as well. Check the factory outlet at Axiom for the M22's and save some money.

 

[pzaur]

I'll definitely return to this after a decision has been made...

Allsop4now - a great room is just a big open room. My wife and I own a 4 bedroom house with great room and kitchen adjoined. If you really want to look at it:

http://www.standardpacifichomes.com/findhome/NeighborhoodFloorPlan.aspx?NID=1350&FPID=174762&PFPID=3502

Not my subdivision, but the same floorplan.

-pat

 

[Tomorrow]

I love to listen to classical and jazz music

Pat,

Since you dig jazz and classical, my guess is that you should stay away from the really bright, efficient speakers like Klipsch, Axiom, Infinity, etc. I generally identify those with HT or R&R. My suggestion would be to find something in your price range that has a soft dome (such as silk) tweeter. While you want the dynamics for classical...you also want a polite speaker to spread the mood of a nice jazz piece.

Here are a couple of examples for you in your price range...but you simply must go audition and let your ears decide before throwing down your hard earned dough. (The Aperion is great...they'll pay for shipping both ways if you don't like them!)

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=31269 or .....

http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/Intimus-533-T-Tower-Speaker,22,28,23.aspx

Good hunting.

 

[billnchristy]

Ok, I was waiting, but it hasnt been mentioned yet:

Check av123 for great prices on great speakers.

X-series would be good and a fairly neutral speaker.

 

[pzaur]

I started listening today and knocked a few off the list. I think I actually prefer speakers that are a little on the "bright" side with sound. The Infinitys and the Klipsch RF10 sounded very muddied and withdrawn. The Klipsch RF62, on the other hand, had a very nice presence. I also checked out the Polk RTi8 and thought it was "Ok". Nothing special.
I'm very used to the Klipsch sound having lived in a house with Klipsch Quartets. Very crisp and clear. So far the RF62 is in the lead, over budget, and a new addition to the list.

My brother in-law suggested speakers from Atlantic Technology. Anyone had experience with these?

Keep everything coming and thanks for the info being presented! I'm learning a ton about the actual science of sound, which wasn't taught in my Music Education courses. We only learned how to play and teach the sound makers...

-pat

 

[Tomorrow]

I started listening today and knocked a few off the list. I think I actually prefer speakers that are a little on the "bright" side with sound. The Infinitys and the Klipsch RF10 sounded very muddied and withdrawn. The Klipsch RF62, on the other hand, had a very nice presence. I also checked out the Polk RTi8 and thought it was "Ok". Nothing special.
I'm very used to the Klipsch sound having lived in a house with Klipsch Quartets. Very crisp and clear. So far the RF62 is in the lead, over budget, and a new addition to the list.

My brother in-law suggested speakers from Atlantic Technology. Anyone had experience with these?

Keep everything coming and thanks for the info being presented! I'm learning a ton about the actual science of sound, which wasn't taught in my Music Education courses. We only learned how to play and teach the sound makers...

-pat

Well...if you like the Klipsch.....

But if you still want alternative suggestions, here are some very clean sounding speakers that are most definitely NOT muddy...again, they're in your price ballpark and are fine speakers. You should be able to find them nearby for auditioning.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=30966

and

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=23856

Good luck with your search.

 

[highfihoney]

I'm very used to the Klipsch sound having lived in a house with Klipsch Quartets. Very crisp and clear.
-pat

For the most part i like the klipsch sound too even though i cant get my head around the garbage klipsch stuff they sell at best buy but all the same i think klipsch does make some great sounding speakers unfortunately most people will never hear them because they arent sold in main stream stores.

If you like the way klipsch quartets sound why not try out a pair of klipsch heresy's,in my opinion the heresy is one of the best sounding & most versitile speakers ever made,they have a good enough bass response where they wont require a subwoofer in most rooms & they dont take up a ton of space,they are also voiced the same as the rest of the klipsch heritage line,the heratige line sounds nothing like the mass market klipsch junk people are used to hearing & they are audiophile grade speakers.

I own a pair of heresy 2's that im running in an all tube secondary system & i love them,IMO within the klipsch line there is no better sounding speaker,the heresy's sound as good to my ears as k horn's & lascala's both of which cost multi thousands of dollars.

Check em out.

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/heresy-iii.aspx