Speakers for music without subwoofer - $1000ish or less

S

SJTrance

Audioholic
So far, the MB Quartz seems to be a good option for you so far. I live in NYC also and in a studio, but it isn't necessarily a small studio. I actually have a Hsu VTF 3 MK3 sub in my place decoupled with an Auralux gramma pad. I haven't gotten any complaints so far, but the guy across the hall frequently gets complaints from his smaller Bose setup because he's got the the sub sitting on the floor. Even with the speakers, I think you'll still have issues because even they will transmit the sound to the other units. I'd also consider a decoupler under those mains.

You could also consider doing something small like a sattelite system like Orb Audio and even have a 5.1 setup with a small subwoofer. The Emotiva sub would be an awesome addition even with the totem mains. As you're probably aware, it makes a difference.

I just got the Emp E5ti towers and the E5ci center with Paradigm Atom surrounds with the VTF 3.3. You're more than welcome to see how it sounds if you like.
 
J

jkozlow3

Audiophyte
So far, the MB Quartz seems to be a good option for you so far. I live in NYC also and in a studio, but it isn't necessarily a small studio. I actually have a Hsu VTF 3 MK3 sub in my place decoupled with an Auralux gramma pad. I haven't gotten any complaints so far, but the guy across the hall frequently gets complaints from his smaller Bose setup because he's got the the sub sitting on the floor. Even with the speakers, I think you'll still have issues because even they will transmit the sound to the other units. I'd also consider a decoupler under those mains.

You could also consider doing something small like a sattelite system like Orb Audio and even have a 5.1 setup with a small subwoofer. The Emotiva sub would be an awesome addition even with the totem mains. As you're probably aware, it makes a difference.

I just got the Emp E5ti towers and the E5ci center with Paradigm Atom surrounds with the VTF 3.3. You're more than welcome to see how it sounds if you like.
Thanks for the offer, but I haven't actually moved to NYC yet. Probably in the next couple of months, and I'm just trying to get the important stuff sorted out....like speakers! :D

I'm actually thinking about the Sierra-1's now despite my desire to stay away from rear ported speakers. I think I'll just pull them out away from the wall a little more than I originally planned to combat this. And I can try them for 30 days and return them if I'm not pleased. I've just read too many good things about them (here and in a ton of other forums) to not give them a shot. I really want to get by without a sub and from what I've read, the Sierras should certainly allow me to do so for music use. Clean, low bass seems to be one of their strongest suits which is amazing for a 5.25" driver!
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Clean, low bass seems to be one of their strongest suits which is amazing for a 5.25" driver!
That is amazing!:D

BTW, I have some ocean front property in Arizona.:rolleyes:

I think Bose uses 5.25" drivers in their subs. Perfect size for low-end extension. I think they get pretty good reviews too.

Review: ADVERTISEMENT
 
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M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I really want to get by without a sub and from what I've read, the Sierras should certainly allow me to do so for music use. Clean, low bass seems to be one of their strongest suits which is amazing for a 5.25" driver!
You do realize, don't you, that this someone's very subjective opinion, not a testable fact, don't you?

I've never seen a 5" driver do real bass. The laws of physics seem to agree.
 
C

cschang

Audioholic Chief
You do realize, don't you, that this someone's very subjective opinion, not a testable fact, don't you?

I've never seen a 5" driver do real bass. The laws of physics seem to agree.
To quote the Audioholics review:

Bass is definitely a strong point for these speakers with a 3dB point in the upper 40Hz region. Though don’t expect to get high SPL’s at these frequencies as you are limited by the cone excursion of such a small woofer. We still recommend crossing these speakers over at 80Hz and letting a good sub or two handle the bass duties below that region.
My opinion is the bass quality is extremely good until you get to an average listening level of 85-90db or so (two channel at my listening position of about 10' from the speakers), at that point, a good, well integrated subwoofer, would be beneficial.
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord
To quote the Audioholics review:

"Bass is definitely a strong point for these speakers with a 3dB point in the upper 40Hz region. Though don’t expect to get high SPL’s at these frequencies as you are limited by the cone excursion of such a small woofer. We still recommend crossing these speakers over at 80Hz and letting a good sub or two handle the bass duties below that region."

My opinion is the bass quality is extremely good until you get to an average listening level of 85-90db or so (two channel at my listening position of about 10' from the speakers), at that point, a good, well integrated subwoofer, would be beneficial.
From what I read here they are good for their size. But, their size seems to be the limiting factor as to how much air they can move. Since everyone still seems to be recommending a subwoofer, it seems that they won't quite replace a larger speaker, as OP requested. Of course, theat really depends on what OP considers a reasonable listening level, and the size/layout of the room and the distance from the speakers. Does he want nearfield?
 
C

cschang

Audioholic Chief
From what I read here they are good for their size. But, their size seems to be the limiting factor as to how much air they can move. Since everyone still seems to be recommending a subwoofer, it seems that they won't quite replace a larger speaker, as OP requested. Of course, theat really depends on what OP considers a reasonable listening level, and the size/layout of the room and the distance from the speakers. Does he want nearfield?
I just re-read the first post.

He wants sealed or front ported as the speaker will be close to the wall, 10' or so from the listening position, and he doesn't listen loud(although that is subjective). In the case of the Sierras, what would necessitate the use of the "Q plug A" option, and would change the bass response, and he would need a subwoofer for sure.

Also there are driver height restrictions when it comes to a floorstander.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I just re-read the first post.

He wants sealed or front ported as the speaker will be close to the wall, 10' or so from the listening position, and he doesn't listen loud(although that is subjective). In the case of the Sierras, what would necessitate the use of the "Q plug A" option, and would change the bass response, and he would need a subwoofer for sure.

Also there are driver height restrictions when it comes to a floorstander.
I'm actually thinking about the Sierra-1's now despite my desire to stay away from rear ported speakers. I think I'll just pull them out away from the wall a little more than I originally planned to combat this. And I can try them for 30 days and return them if I'm not pleased. I've just read too many good things about them (here and in a ton of other forums) to not give them a shot. I really want to get by without a sub and from what I've read, the Sierras should certainly allow me to do so for music use. Clean, low bass seems to be one of their strongest suits which is amazing for a 5.25" driver!
... in case you can offer anything in light of his later comment!
 
C

cschang

Audioholic Chief
... in case you can offer anything in light of his later comment!
More variables...

If willing, I would say give them a try with the different Q plug options.
 
ron3033

ron3033

Enthusiast
Paradigm or Axioms not sure which model # to tell you but go to the company sites. You will not be disapponted with Paradigm I have had one set since 95 and have another set since 2009. Tremendous sound and bang for the buck.

ron3033
 
T

Theresa

Junior Audioholic
Madisound

You could get one of my favorites, the ScanSpeak Rediscovery from Madisound. I use one as my center and it is a wonderful speaker. In Madisound's 38 liter floor standing cabinet it goes down to the mid-30s.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am not sure how it works in the US but recently the FutureShop (Canada) has the Energy RC70 on sale at below 1K per pair. That was less than 50% of their regular list price. I have never seen that kind of deal on the RC70 before.
 
T

Theresa

Junior Audioholic
Don't even bother listening about Bose

As audiophiles SHOULD all know, Bose is baddddd... No sense discussing it, it is so deficient that arguing is just a waste of energy. There is always talk of WAF but women are just as able as men to evaluate a speaker. This particular woman knows she hates Bose and it's misleading marketing. It lowers the bar by causing people to believe that something is accurate when it's not.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I am not sure how it works in the US but recently the FutureShop (Canada) has the Energy RC70 on sale at below 1K per pair. That was less than 50% of their regular list price. I have never seen that kind of deal on the RC70 before.
No deals like that for us here, which is unfortunate. Woot.com had them for $800/pr awhile ago but woot is a 1 sale a day type of site and I didn't have the money at the time :(

I did order a pair of RC-50s for $502.21 this morning and an RC-LCR for $302.33 on thursday so I'm happy with that :D
 
J

jkozlow3

Audiophyte
Who was talking about Bose??

Anyway...

I emailed David Fabrikant of Ascend last weekend asking about the availability of B-stock Sierra-1's in piano black. He indicated that my timing was nearly perfect as a pair had recently come off the production line with a couple of barely visible hairline scratches. I was therefore able to get a good deal on the speakers, so I jumped on them.

The Sierra-1's arrived yesterday and I've only got about 10 hours on them so far, but they are simply AMAZING speakers. Much cleaner (less congested/muffled) sounding than my pair of NHT SB3's that they'll be replacing. The NHT's were rated to 39Hz @ -3db (not sure if this is anechoic or in-room) and have a 6.5" woofer. The Sierra-1's are rated to 44Hz @ -3db (anechoic) with a typical in-room response of 39Hz @ -3db and have a 5.25" woofer. I have no idea how, but the bass is FAR better on these little Sierra-1's after a quick A/B test of the two speakers that I did yesterday. More weight and far cleaner. The reviewers who've raved about the bass of these things are not lying! I remember reading a comment from a Sierra-1 owner on the Audioholics or AVS forums that said he was constantly checking his sub to make sure it was turned off when he first got his Sierras. I'd be doing the same if I hadn't physically unplugged mine. The bass isn't even the area where they best the NHT's the most however. The Sierras sound so much more open/airy/detailed and like a true "hi-fi" speaker compared to the NHT's which sound very "mid-fi" next to them. It took me all of a few minutes cycling through a few different songs to realize that the Sierras were in a very different league than my old SB3's.

My comparisons were brief, not perfectly level matched, and were done in "direct" mode on my Denon 3311ci to disable my Audyssey settings which were set for my old NHT SB3's. I set the speakers to full range and the sub was set to "none". Both speakers were placed on sand-filled stands with the tweeter around ear level and about 1ft out from the wall. That's all I needed before I realized I didn't need a full 30 day evaluation of the Sierras to decide if it was worth upgrading.

This morning, I re-ran Audyssey with only the L/R Sierras connected (my old NHT center & surrounds and my Mirage Omni S12 sub were disconnected). I wanted to do this because I've been very impressed with what Audyssey has done in my room in the past and because I love the DynamicEQ feature which dynamically boosts the bass (among other things) the further you get from "0" on the dial due to our ears' insensitivity to bass at lower volumes. For those that are familiar with Audyssey, I actually had to decrease my reference level offset from a value of "10" that I previously used when listening to music with my NHTs to a value of "15" with the Sierras. Basically, this means I am using less of a bass boost at lower volumes, as a -10 offset was actually a bit overwhelming with the Sierras in my room.

After running Audyssey this morning, I have played a ton of songs so far and can confidently say that I don't think I'll ever feel like I'm missing anything by using the Sierra-1's without a subwoofer for music - at least not when used in conjunction with the Denon's Audyssey MultEQ XT and DynamicEQ. Note that I am not a classical music listener which I understand often mandates the use of a sub for true "full range" reproduction. If you recall, I am planning on downgrading from my 5.1 setup to a 3.0 (L/C/R) setup when I move from my townhouse into a small NYC studio apartment in the next couple of months and did not want to bring my sub with me for fear of being a bad neighbor. Problem solved. I guess I just need to get a matching center channel now!
 
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its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Congrats on your purchase, and thanks for the read. One of these days I would like to get a pair of Sierra-1s :D
 
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