Speaker Kit Completeness vs. Value

[gregz]

Most of my speaker building and design has been relegated to subwoofers. I have several friends who are in need up upgrades to their non-existent or woeful home systems, and I'm looking at the kit market as the best compromise between value and time.

Aside from the components, what is the most expensive part of producing production speakers? From my own labor and time, I would have guessed the finishing work and surface treatment on the cabinets, followed closely by the MDF box assembly itself. That makes me wonder if these ready made finished cabinet and crossover kit is really any type of value or close to the cost of a completed speaker in a store:

Dayton Audio RS722CCK Speaker Kit Curved Cherry 302-973

Does Parts Express really save money by not going the last 1/8 mile and screwing in speakers, or is this a gimmick?

 

[Swerd]

Most of my speaker building and design has been relegated to subwoofers. I have several friends who are in need up upgrades to their non-existent or woeful home systems, and I'm looking at the kit market as the best compromise between value and time.

Aside from the components, what is the most expensive part of producing production speakers? From my own labor and time, I would have guessed the finishing work and surface treatment on the cabinets, followed closely by the MDF box assembly itself. That makes me wonder if these ready made finished cabinet and crossover kit is really any type of value or close to the cost of a completed speaker in a store:

Dayton Audio RS722CCK Speaker Kit Curved Cherry 302-973

Does Parts Express really save money by not going the last 1/8 mile and screwing in speakers, or is this a gimmick?

The kit including cabinet $276 each

Cabinet alone $170 each

Parts without cabinet $219 each

You do the math . Please note that the prices are for one speaker. Two speakers would cost $552.

Yes, your instincts are correct that building and finishing a cabinet is the time consuming and potentially expensive part. Despite that, these kits are a pretty good deal. They also are very good sounding speakers. Commercially available equivalents might cost about $1000 to $1500 retail per pair.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I have my reservations about value of this particular kit, imo GR kits could really compete with $1000-1500 speaker.
I'd rather have CMT-340 SE Mini-Tower Loudspeaker

than Dayton kit speaker, thought the later is not as pretty

 

[mattsk8]

Most of my speaker building and design has been relegated to subwoofers. I have several friends who are in need up upgrades to their non-existent or woeful home systems, and I'm looking at the kit market as the best compromise between value and time.

Aside from the components, what is the most expensive part of producing production speakers? From my own labor and time, I would have guessed the finishing work and surface treatment on the cabinets, followed closely by the MDF box assembly itself. That makes me wonder if these ready made finished cabinet and crossover kit is really any type of value or close to the cost of a completed speaker in a store:

Dayton Audio RS722CCK Speaker Kit Curved Cherry 302-973

Does Parts Express really save money by not going the last 1/8 mile and screwing in speakers, or is this a gimmick?

I asked myself the exact same question when I got into building speakers not so long ago. I thought, there's no way there's that much mark up in speakers. Against my cynical thoughts about the whole idea, I decided to give it a try and started w/ this kit:
TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Components And Cabinet Kit Pair 300-702

I've got to say, I'm thoroughly pleased w/ how good they sound. I've compaired them to my JBL bookshelf speakers and to some Polk Audio MTMs (both in the $4-500 price range) and the Tritrix speakers win for sure, w/out a doubt they sound better. They're very clean, even at high volumes. If they had a touch more bass they'd be absolutely phenominal for the money but even the way they are they're close to a full range and well worth the money. I was so pleased w/ them I decided to build 2 more pairs of speakers. Although these are quite a bit more money than the Tritrix. I'm almost done building these for my dad:
Statements
I already have the components to build these, I'll do them after I finish the Statements (caution, long read!):
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/diy-corner-tips-techniques/68531-new-diy-mtm-towers-designed-dennis-murphy-paul-kittinger.html

Needless to say I was so pleased w/ the Tritrix that I dove in head first and didn't look back. The real question is really based on you. What's your time worth and do you enjoy building cabinets? If not I'd say go to the store and buy some speakers cuz I haven't finished the exterior of the Tritrix yet, but after I do I don't think it would be cost effective to sell a pair for less than $1000 just because of the amount of finish time I'll have into them (depending on the finish I decide on). I love building cabinets and finishing hardwood so for me its a hobby, not a living.

Maybe that helps, I do know you were considering the finished cabinet version so my scenario doesn't even apply, more telling you that I too was sceptical but in the end well pleased w/ the result.

 

[gregz]

Yes, your instincts are correct that building and finishing a cabinet is the time consuming and potentially expensive part. Despite that, these kits are a pretty good deal. They also are very good sounding speakers. Commercially available equivalents might cost about $1000 to $1500 retail per pair.

Hi, thanks for the response. My problem is the pricing structure shows that by far the best deal is the fully finished cabinet with minimal assembly required, which is what set off my instictive B.S. alarms. Comparatively, there's very little discount in buying just the components alone, which doesn't seem right.

Then there's the economy of scale: Big speaker manufacturers can pump out volumes of product at lowered expense to themselves, passing on some of that savings. In the past, there have always been a few good performers even in the brands sold at mainstream stores.

I have my reservations about value of this particular kit, imo GR kits could really compete with $1000-1500 speaker.
I'd rather have CMT-340 SE Mini-Tower Loudspeaker

Thanks for the link. Perhaps this is one of the low priced performers out there, but without hearing it, it's hard to make the leap. I'm certainly not drawn in by looks alone! LOL

Needless to say I was so pleased w/ the Tritrix that I dove in head first and didn't look back. The real question is really based on you. What's your time worth and do you enjoy building cabinets? If not I'd say go to the store and buy some speakers cuz I haven't finished the exterior of the Tritrix yet, but after I do I don't think it would be cost effective to sell a pair for less than $1000 just because of the amount of finish time I'll have into them (depending on the finish I decide on). I love building cabinets and finishing hardwood so for me its a hobby, not a living.

For me, the end product is my hobby (the sound), and looking into the kit route is simply a means to an end to get there as inexpensively as possible.

In subwoofers, it's always been a no-brainer to build my own. Mainstream companies can't afford to allow low frequency extension and tight dampening to compromise mid-bass efficiency when selling to the masses; only the marked up high end subs are worth a hoot. And thanks to the car audio industry, drivers are plentiful and relatively cheap.

But I don't think any of these factors are there for a speaker kit. Not many companies sell drivers (outside car audio), most speakers don't need to have LF response, and people don't get fooled with a loud one-note boom when looking for actual speakers.

 

[Swerd]

Hi, thanks for the response. My problem is the pricing structure shows that by far the best deal is the fully finished cabinet with minimal assembly required, which is what set off my instictive B.S. alarms. Comparatively, there's very little discount in buying just the components alone, which doesn't seem right.

Then there's the economy of scale: Big speaker manufacturers can pump out volumes of product at lowered expense to themselves, passing on some of that savings. In the past, there have always been a few good performers even in the brands sold at mainstream stores.

The special price that PE is now offering on the cabinet plus the kit parts make it especially attractive. I guess I didn't point that out clearly in my previous post.

I did hear that design MTM several years ago. I don't now remember details, only that I did like it.

The pre-made PE cabinets are very well made and are professionally finished. The front baffle is 1" MDF and the rest is ¾" MDF. The front baffle is removable - held on with 4 bolts.

The cabinets with curved sides look great, but that makes installing crossover boards somewhat more difficult. I would hope that PE's pre-made crossover boards take that into account.

They only come in 3 finishes, gloss black, blond maple, or cherry-colored. The veneer for the last one is not real cherry, it's either beech or birch (I can never remember) and has little visible grain. Other than that, these are excellent cabinets.

 

[gregz]

The special price that PE is now offering on the cabinet plus the kit parts make it especially attractive. I guess I didn't point that out clearly in my previous post.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me.

That finished curved cabinet design is good looking and compact, which makes it a good candidate for my friends who are not audiophiles, and possibly as KICK *** computer speakers for me.

 

[its phillip]

I think they'd be a little big for computer speakers...the cabinets are 22" H x (9" Front, 4.5" Back) W x 14.8" D. Of course, if you don't think so, that's fine too

 

[gregz]

I think they'd be a little big for computer speakers...the cabinets are 22" H x (9" Front, 4.5" Back) W x 14.8" D. Of course, if you don't think so, that's fine too

It's ALL about the sound! LOL

 

[lsiberian]

If you already have the tools and experience cabinet constructions isn't too difficult. It's the hardest part, but still it's doable.

 

[GranteedEV]

Most of my speaker building and design has been relegated to subwoofers. I have several friends who are in need up upgrades to their non-existent or woeful home systems, and I'm looking at the kit market as the best compromise between value and time.

Aside from the components, what is the most expensive part of producing production speakers? From my own labor and time, I would have guessed the finishing work and surface treatment on the cabinets, followed closely by the MDF box assembly itself. That makes me wonder if these ready made finished cabinet and crossover kit is really any type of value or close to the cost of a completed speaker in a store:

Dayton Audio RS722CCK Speaker Kit Curved Cherry 302-973

Does Parts Express really save money by not going the last 1/8 mile and screwing in speakers, or is this a gimmick?

The drivers alone represent a very high value - the dayton RS28-A and RS180 are very good drivers. The tweeter is arguably comparable to $200+ scanspeak tweeters with its ability to play low without distortion. metal midranges like this just won't be found in inexpensive speakers because manufacturers don't want to spend the money on the crossover parts to deal with metal cones (and don't want to use good enough tweeters that can cross low enough to make metal cones viable). These midwoofers also employ use of things shorting rings and linear suspensions to really get great measured performance.

Here, the RS180's sibling the 150 is compared to the ultra high end seas excel as well as a very nice Zaph Unit:

Zaph|Audio ZA14W08 midwoofer

The crossover is the question mark (not saying it's bad - could be great - just a question mark).

 

[gregz]

The drivers alone represent a very high value - the dayton RS28-A and RS180 are very good drivers. The tweeter is arguably comparable to $200+ scanspeak tweeters with its ability to play low without distortion. metal midranges like this just won't be found in inexpensive speakers because manufacturers don't want to spend the money on the crossover parts to deal with metal cones (and don't want to use good enough tweeters that can cross low enough to make metal cones viable). These midwoofers also employ use of things shorting rings and linear suspensions to really get great measured performance.

Here, the RS180's sibling the 150 is compared to the ultra high end seas excel as well as a very nice Zaph Unit:

Zaph|Audio ZA14W08 midwoofer

The crossover is the question mark (not saying it's bad - could be great - just a question mark).

Thanks, that's good stuff! Time to start looking seriously into these and start figuring out where I want to be.