Sound United has been sold....

[TLS Guy]

Watch. He’s gonna come back with “everyone else’s powered speakers will last 50 years”.

Cramming more digital electronic parts inside every single speaker = Increased digital electronic complexity and heat, decreased reliability and availability of parts, increased costs.

But no. We’re just rigid thinkers.

Yes, you are. The shoe fits. It is thinking like that, that prevents progress and innovation. That thinking would have kept us to still be using carts, mules and horses never mind take to the air.

Those arguments were especially prevalent when the age of sail was evolving into the age of the steam ship.

 

[lovinthehd]

While modularity could be attractive for an active speaker's electronics, does anybody do that currently?

Personally they (active/powered speakers) don't work in several of my rooms simply due few outlets and not where they'd be needed, plus already have the other electronics. I have one pair of small active/powered speakers and use them with some old 2ch pre-amps I have.

Younger consumers are I think are still in the early stages in starting to accept active/powered speakers, altho I suspect these are more of the smaller form factors rather than full size speakers many of us here would prefer.

 

[cpp]

While modularity could be attractive for an active speaker's electronics, does anybody do that currently?

Personally they (active/powered speakers) don't work in several of my rooms simply due few outlets and not where they'd be needed, plus already have the other electronics.

That's ok, you just need to tear your house apart and add new outlets to house for all of these "powered speakers. Or just string some audiophile extension cords along the floor.

 

[TLS Guy]

While modularity could be attractive for an active speaker's electronics, does anybody do that currently?

Personally they (active/powered speakers) don't work in several of my rooms simply due few outlets and not where they'd be needed, plus already have the other electronics. I have one pair of small active/powered speakers and use them with some old 2ch pre-amps I have.

Younger consumers are I think are still in the early stages in starting to accept active/powered speakers, altho I suspect these are more of the smaller form factors rather than full size speakers many of us here would prefer.

Not that I know of. But it is time to be creative and change the square. We need to end this penchant of having to recycle gear that is not very old.

So making parts easily replaceable would create consumer confidence. I understand passive speakers can have a long life. But a lot of electronics can be to, and you really do not have to design it to be unfixable, but easily serviced. Willi Studer's tape machines were modular from the start. There is actually no excuse to make anything a nightmare to service and it is actually bad design. I have to say it, but throwing everything together in a big black box did originate with Asian manufacture, and it has been a pox visited upon us.

Here is a nice example of elegant easily serviceable modular design.

The Quad 33 preamp.

 

[PENG]

One point some people make is that class-D amps cannot handle 2-ohms and 1-ohm. It doesn’t matter to most of us because our speakers are usually 4-8 ohms.

But what do you think?

First of all, I must edit my post because it seemed misleading. I meant to say it is a sad truth that many people still think/say/believe class D sounds better than D, all else being equal, while if they don't know what class the amp they are listening to, with that bias removed, the two would most likely sound the same to them, also on all else being equal basis.

Now, on the other sad truth that some, or many people believe in the hearsay about 2 and 1 ohm load, such a claim is also easily debunked based on many bench test results. Just take a look of many class D amps measured on ASR, most recently the mini Fosi amp:

Fosi Audio V3 Mono Amplifier Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Take a look of the reactive load test results, that should instantly debunk such beliefs you mentione, at least to down to 2 ohm load, though there is every indication that it would do okay on 1 ohm load (on short duration basis), if those ever exist.

Note that in Amir's standard 5 W test, that little made in China (parts made in the USA, as it uses TI's class D chip modules), and other parts made in Germany and Japan, measured 100 dB SINAD!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

…at least to down to 2 ohm load, though there is every indication that it would do okay on 1 ohm load (on short duration basis)…

I think the issue (1-2 ohm class-D) was that many people were not aware/seen those ohm measurements.

And now that they can see those 2-ohm measurements, they can still say, “Okay, so class-D can handle 2-ohms, but where’s the actual 1-ohm measurements?”

Does 1-ohm matter? Does 100dB SINAD matter? Does 90dB SINAD matter? Does active vs passive matter? Does AVP/Amp vs AVR matter? Does Room EQ matter?

They will always find something. That’s how some audiophiles think.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think the issue (1-2 ohm class-D) was that many people were not aware/seen those ohm measurements.

And now that they can see those 2-ohm measurements, they can still say, “Okay, so class-D can handle 2-ohms, but where’s the actual 1-ohm measurements?”

Does 1-ohm matter? Does 100dB SINAD matter? Does 90dB SINAD matter? Does active vs passive matter? Does AVP/Amp vs AVR matter? Does Room EQ matter?

They will always find something. That’s how some audiophiles think.

I would point out that if you design active speakers you will never have to see 1 or 2 ohm loads and phase angles in excess of -45 degrees.

I would point out that one of the major reasons my AV room has superior sound, is because of its active crossover circuits, and the ability to precisely control BSC.
If I tried to make that system passive it would be a nightmare, and blow amps left right and center.

One of the major reasons for the reliability of my system as that ALL loads are reasonable and don't stress output stages.

OK I grant you passive components are less likely to fail, but they can over time. However passive speakers stressing amps and blowing receivers means you often see an expensive item going to the recycling center. Then if it is a 7.6.4 receiver, then you are throwing away 13 amps in one shot. Whereas if you active speakers with easily replaceable modular amps by the owner, only one amp would end up at the recycling center.

I have this right. Our infrastructure and design are just nonsense and way out of line and changes long overdue must be made.

 

[cpp]

does 1-ohm matter? Does 100dB SINAD matter? Does 90dB SINAD matter? Does active vs passive matter? Does AVP/Amp vs AVR matter? Does Room EQ matter?

Nope, all that maters is what the listener hears and enjoys, that's all that matters.

And in most cases, lets talk about younger adults living in what a 2 bedroom 1000 sqft appt or smaller. There is NO custom building of a audio purpose room as it shared rooms along with TV's sofa's and other stuff. The overall majority have their smart phone connected to a sound bar and its playing music, and they enjoy it, or their Big Screen 77" TV is connected to that sound bar, or not. This is their world, not a bunch of old 60+ years old pushing for a change for what a few old guys that want all in one speaker boxes. Might as well go back to the old all self contained turntable, am/fm radio cabinets of the 70's. , The kids today don't really care and they are the what the future of audio. Sure maybe some lonely guy with few friends might do it, but the big majority its not going to happen, they love their mobility and as they age, who knows.

 

[Verdinut]

It is not very practical to use active speakers when your listening room doesn't have the wiring with the appropriately located AC outlets to power them.

 

[highfigh]

Watch. He’s gonna come back with “everyone else’s powered speakers will last 50 years”.

Cramming more digital electronic parts inside every single speaker = Increased digital electronic complexity and heat, decreased reliability and availability of parts, increased costs.

But no. We’re just rigid thinkers.

Properly heat-sinked, what's the problem? Digital circuits operate at lower temperatures than analog amplifiers, right?

 

[Danzilla31]

Nope, all that maters is what the listener hears and enjoys, that's all that matters.

And in most cases, lets talk about younger adults living in what a 2 bedroom 1000 sqft appt or smaller. There is NO custom building of a audio purpose room as it shared rooms along with TV's sofa's and other stuff. The overall majority have their smart phone connected to a sound bar and its playing music, and they enjoy it, or their Big Screen 77" TV is connected to that sound bar, or not. This is their world, not a bunch of old 60+ years old pushing for a change for what a few old guys that want all in one speaker boxes. Might as well go back to the old all self contained turntable, am/fm radio cabinets of the 70's. , The kids today don't really care and they are the what the future of audio. Sure maybe some lonely guy with few friends might do it, but the big majority its not going to happen, they love their mobility and as they age, who knows.

Hey!!!! Go easy on us lonely guys with few friends we got feelings to dammit!

 

[cpp]

Hey!!!! Go easy on us lonely guys with few friends we got feelings to dammit!

LOL, whoops, I guess one day we all will be like this

 

[Danzilla31]

LOL, whoops, I guess one day we all will be like this

View attachment 66943

Whaddya mean one of these days I'm like that right now!

 

[M Code]

This reminds me of what @M Code said about how giant corporations like Yamaha are not making much money from selling AVR/Amps compared to their other sectors. Yet they continue to sell AVR/Amps anyway.

I never understood why Yamaha (and other companies) would continue making AVR/Amps if they are basically making "peanuts" from selling AVR/Amps.

M Code might have explained it, but I can't recall.

So maybe someone could explain it to me.

Hmmm..
Don't remember that post but below are some of my latest personal observations/experiences/opinions about Yamaha audio products.

1. Yamaha for the most part design and builds their own audio products.
2. Compared to Denon & Marantz, for their largest selling product categories @ popular price points sourcing is done through outside subcontractors.
3. A major advantage for Yamaha by owning their factories, is that they save significant $$ by not having to pay higher factory markups to a subcontractor.
4. Another significant advantage of Yamaha by having their own factories and controlling the design and production processes, the end result is better product quality and reliability.
5. Another Yamaha advantage that helps sales of higher end audio products is their significant market share distribution networks, especially in Japan and Europe.
6. Additionally Yamaha has had more discipline in cultivating/maintaining a large and loyal distribution system for both popular priced audio product categories and the high end separates assuring a more reliable profit margin to the selling dealer. Compared to Denon and Marantz which over the last few years and ownership changes has had multiple shortcomings given their changing market sales/distribution policies.
7. Yamaha invests in doing outside validations such as HDMI certification, whereas the competition tries to self-certify, avoiding the additional expense.
8. Yamaha is a strong provider of outside software for supporting Yamaha product compatibility with third party compatibility such as Control 4, Crestron which today is pertinent for the integration within the growing home automation segment.

Just my $0.02....

 

[Bernie Williams]

Masimo (owner of Sound United) posted earnings today. From their earnings call: Sure. Thank you. Yeah, I think as I've mentioned before, one of the reasons we acquired Sound United was for their audio engineers as we were planning to get into the hearing aid market for low to moderate hearing loss. So with the help of that team, the help of the neuro team in Australia and our own engineering team here in Irvine, we are developing what I hope will be a revolutionary hearing aid. And we call that H1 for now, that might stick as the final name. But I think H1 should be available for sale this year.

Their "non healthcare segment" consists of sound united and their hear aids. Non healthcare posted a negative revenue of 11% CAGR over the last two years. Hear aids is negligible though growing. Buying sound united for engineering help with their hearing aids sound like Bullish.. to me. I would be pissed if I were an investor/boardmember. No mention on the call about sound united products.

 

[PENG]

Masimo (owner of Sound United) posted earnings today. From their earnings call: Sure. Thank you. Yeah, I think as I've mentioned before, one of the reasons we acquired Sound United was for their audio engineers as we were planning to get into the hearing aid market for low to moderate hearing loss. So with the help of that team, the help of the neuro team in Australia and our own engineering team here in Irvine, we are developing what I hope will be a revolutionary hearing aid. And we call that H1 for now, that might stick as the final name. But I think H1 should be available for sale this year.

Their "non healthcare segment" consists of sound united and their hear aids. Non healthcare posted a negative revenue of 11% CAGR over the last two years. Hear aids is negligible though growing. Buying sound united for engineering help with their hearing aids sound like Bullish.. to me. I would be pissed if I were an investor/boardmember. No mention on the call about sound united products.

As baby boomers age, there will be higher demand for hifi hearing aids so I guess to want to get ahead of the curve. As it is now, hifi hear aids are there but very expensive.

FDA Approved OTC Hearing Aids: A Win for Hi-Fi Audio? | Audioholics

Example:
Oticon Intent Hearing Aid: Review & Prices (soundly.com)