Sierra2 tweeter

[macddmac]

Dave F just posted this On the ascend forum.

Cheers, Mac

 

[billy p]

Highly anticipated amongst us at the Ascend forum....I might have held on to my Sierra 1's and had them refitted....had I known about this project sooner....I had my centre refitted with the RAAL and it's as advertised... silky smooth.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Highly anticipated amongst us at the Ascend forum....I might have held on to my Sierra 1's and had them refitted....had I known about this project sooner....I had my centre refitted with the RAAL and it's as advertised... silky smooth.

I haven't seen the discussion on the Ascend forum, but that's the new cheaper version of the RAAL 10 that I use on my Phil 3's. I've been working with it, and it appears to be a fine unit. It's not as sensitive as the more expensive version, which wouldn't be a problem in a typical 2-way, and the ribbon element can't be replaced in the field. But that's a fair trade-off. I'll probably use it in a less expensive version of the Slims tower. My understanding was that it won't be available until the first of the year. Does Dave already have the new tweets in hand?

 

[fuzz092888]

I haven't seen the discussion on the Ascend forum, but that's the new cheaper version of the RAAL 10 that I use on my Phil 3's. I've been working with it, and it appears to be a fine unit. It's not as sensitive as the more expensive version, which wouldn't be a problem in a typical 2-way, and the ribbon element can't be replaced in the field. But that's a fair trade-off. I'll probably use it in a less expensive version of the Slims tower. My understanding was that it won't be available until the first of the year. Does Dave already have the new tweets in hand?

That's interesting. Are you able/do you know what kind of price difference there will end up being between these and the one's you already use? I'm sure the performance will still be top notch.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

That's interesting. Are you able/do you know what kind of price difference there will end up being between these and the one's you already use? I'm sure the performance will still be top notch.

I haven't done a complete design yet (still waiting on a cabinet), so I really don't know. The new one doesn't use the pads, so it's less flexible in the user-adjustment area. Some of the cost savings comes from cutting down the number of neo magnets. I believe that just affects sensitivity. The transformer is also lighter, and I don't know what that translates into quality-wise. So I'll just have to wait and see how it stacks up.

 

[davef]

I haven't seen the discussion on the Ascend forum, but that's the new cheaper version of the RAAL 10 that I use on my Phil 3's. I've been working with it, and it appears to be a fine unit. It's not as sensitive as the more expensive version, which wouldn't be a problem in a typical 2-way, and the ribbon element can't be replaced in the field. But that's a fair trade-off. I'll probably use it in a less expensive version of the Slims tower. My understanding was that it won't be available until the first of the year. Does Dave already have the new tweets in hand?

Hey Dennis,

FYI, this is not the same tweeter that you are referring to. This unit is completely custom and proprietary to Ascend and is the completion of a rather exhausting project between Aleksandar and myself that started about 2 years ago. The unit you are referring to, which is also an excellent unit, is not the same… The faceplates will look the same as Aleks elected to use our dimensions to keep things simple for him (which are similar dimensions to other standard faceplates etc.)

 

[billy p]

Hi Dave...I figured, I'd defer. I've followed along over at the Ascend Forum nor did I want to speculate. Thanks!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Hey Dennis,

FYI, this is not the same tweeter that you are referring to. This unit is completely custom and proprietary to Ascend and is the completion of a rather exhausting project between Aleksandar and myself that started about 2 years ago. The unit you are referring to, which is also an excellent unit, is not the same… The faceplates will look the same as Aleks elected to use our dimensions to keep things simple for him (which are similar dimensions to other standard faceplates etc.)

I stand corrected, Dave. I figured it looked like the same duck so it was, but yours is apparently a different bird. If the new tweet Aleks sent me is a spin off of your project, I thank you for doing the ground work. It will be great to be able to make the RAAL sound available to a wider audience.

 

[cpp]

I wonder how it differs from the RAAL 70-20xr or the 70-10

 

[fuzz092888]

I wonder how it differs from the RAAL 70-20xr or the 70-10

Its hard to judge by the picture, especially since there's no other objects for size reference, but we can throw out some guesses anyways

Looks narrower than both of the one's you mentioned, but no way to tell how it compares height-wise. This probably translates into at least less power handling and possibly lower sensitivity depending on how it compares to the model Dennis was talking about.

I also wonder how the model Dennis was talking about compares to the 70-20/70-10 and how the Ascend version compares to all three.

 

[cpp]

Fuzz I was reading on the RAAL site 70-10 and found the below, but of course RAAL does tell you about the 70-20 it's a design secret for dealers /builder only

FEATURES:

- Special FLATFOIL® pure Aluminium ribbon
- Special SYMMLEAD® low inductance signal path
- Special EQUAFIELD® NdFeB magnetic structure
- Special “non-wave-guide” INOX front plate
- Super-fast settling time
- Flat frequency response
- Low nonlinear distortion
- High signal power handling
- Highest reliability

SPECIFICATIONS:
- Ribbon material: aluminium
- Ribbon dimensions: ( 70 x 9.5 x 0.004 ) mm
- Ribbon mass: 0.0075 g
- Ribbon area: 6.65 cm sq.
- Gap induction ( mean value over gap width): 0.62 T
- Frequency response: 2 kHz ~ 100 kHz
- Sensitivity: 92 dB / 1 m / 2.83 V
- Impedance: 8 Ohm
- Program power handling: 150 W*
- *Recommended crossover: 4th order L-R @ 2800 Hz

 

[fuzz092888]

So far I have two 70-10's (Phil 3's) and one 70-20 (Salk Center) and I don't know what any of that means (the below), but it sure translates into pure magic when fed something like the Abbado conducting the Lucerne Festival Orchestra on BD

Fuzz I was reading on the RAAL site 70-10 and found the below, but of course RAAL does tell you about the 70-20 it's a design secret for dealers /builder only

FEATURES:

- Special FLATFOIL® pure Aluminium ribbon
- Special SYMMLEAD® low inductance signal path
- Special EQUAFIELD® NdFeB magnetic structure
- Special “non-wave-guide” INOX front plate
- Super-fast settling time
- Flat frequency response
- Low nonlinear distortion
- High signal power handling
- Highest reliability

SPECIFICATIONS:
- Ribbon material: aluminium
- Ribbon dimensions: ( 70 x 9.5 x 0.004 ) mm
- Ribbon mass: 0.0075 g
- Ribbon area: 6.65 cm sq.
- Gap induction ( mean value over gap width): 0.62 T
- Frequency response: 2 kHz ~ 100 kHz
- Sensitivity: 92 dB / 1 m / 2.83 V
- Impedance: 8 Ohm
- Program power handling: 150 W*
- *Recommended crossover: 4th order L-R @ 2800 Hz

 

[Ricardojoa]

I counted the no. of teeth of the zizag and it appears to have lost three teeth to the 70-10. May not be the best way to judge but it might be shorter then the 70-10. From the pic it also appears to be a little narrower, but it could be the angle.

 

[billy p]

I had ask Dave to elaborate on the 70x10 vs. 70x20xr over at the Ascend forum. I'm not sure if this is pertinent to this discussion at hand about the Sierra 2 but this is what Dave F had to say regarding the 2......The Tower Discussion Thread! - Page 132

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I think I've probably had more experience than anyone comparing the 10 vs. the 20, since my crossovers for Jim Salk use the 20, and I use the 10 on my own speakers. My own personal preference is for the 10, if the driver complement you happen to be using lends itself to the higher crossover point (2800 Hz) that the 10 requires. I find that the broader horizontal dispersion has a slight audible advantage, although this is not a big deal. And I prefer the foam pads, which I don't think have any negative baggage other than their attractiveness to Golden Retriever puppies, and they do allow the owner to adjust the highs easily. As for price, Dave may be getting different price quotes than I do, but it's pretty much a wash for me. If I thought the 20 would sound better in my speakers, I would gladly pay whatever small premium might be involved. But all of this is small trees in a large forest. The forest is the RAAL--and it's a terrific tweeter no matter which model you choose.

 

[cschang]

Dave added more specifics about the tweeter to his post on the Ascend Forum:
Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase? - Page 61