Side A and B

[newtoitall]

Hi Folks,
I tried this question in another thread and I think it got lost so here it goes again.
I am doing a side by side comparison of speakers hooked up to the same amp, side A and B. Is this correct or will the receiver put out different sound to one or the other side. Please keep in mind that the receiver I'm using is my technics that I need to replace.
Thanks,
Frank

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Hi Folks,
I tried this question in another thread and I think it got lost so here it goes again.
I am doing a side by side comparison of speakers hooked up to the same amp, side A and B. Is this correct or will the receiver put out different sound to one or the other side. Please keep in mind that the receiver I'm using is my technics that I need to replace.
Thanks,
Frank

That should work, but you're probably doing an injustice to your speakers with a Technics receiver (unless its one of those beefy vintage models like the one below - they were one of the best).

 

[markw]

Misleading Subject.

I thought it was about Chineese food.

Yes, what you are doing is fine but be aware that sensitivity/efficiency differences between the speakers may make one speaker sound "louder" than the other.

And, "louder" is generally misconstrued as "better", which ain't always the case.

The human mind. just gotta love it.

 

[Blundaar]

That should work, but you're probably doing an injustice to your speakers with a Technics receiver (unless its one of those beefy vintage models like the one below - they were one of the best).

Wow, that brings back some memories!
The first receiver I ever got with my own money was one quite similar to the one pictured... with class "A" amplification. Brings a tear to my eye.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Wow, that brings back some memories!
The first receiver I ever got with my own money was one quite similar to the one pictured... with class "A" amplification. Brings a tear to my eye.

I'm right there with you. These are the specs on that bad boy:
330 watts per channel, minimum RMS, both channels driven, at 4 or 8 ohms, from 20 - 20,000 Hz, with no more than 0.03% total harmonic distortion. 87 freakin lbs. !!!

Compare that to the heralded Denon 5805 that weighs 92 lbs, sporting 10 channels at 170 watts a piece. The Technics is only TWO channels. They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

 

[Ax-man]

That should work, but you're probably doing an injustice to your speakers with a Technics receiver (unless its one of those beefy vintage models like the one below - they were one of the best).

Looking at the pic reminded me of my old reliable Pioneer SX-1080 I bought while in the service back in the seventies, sold it at a garage sell a couple of years back for like 20 bucks...still kicking myself for doing that.

 

[Pyrrho]

Hi Folks,
I tried this question in another thread and I think it got lost so here it goes again.
I am doing a side by side comparison of speakers hooked up to the same amp, side A and B. Is this correct or will the receiver put out different sound to one or the other side. Please keep in mind that the receiver I'm using is my technics that I need to replace.
Thanks,
Frank

There are two things to consider, one of which has been mentioned by markw in this thread. That is, with different efficiency speakers, one will sound louder than the other, and the louder one will sound like it has more bass and treble. (This is because human hearing is not linear; as you turn down the volume, the bass and treble appear to diminish faster than the midrange.) The second thing is that the speakers are not in the same position as each other, and sometimes moving a speaker a few inches one way or another can make a big difference in the way it sounds.

This suggestion will not completely eliminate problems, but I recommend that you carefully level match the different speakers for the same volume (which means you will probably have to change the volume control each time you switch between speakers), and also that, after picking one you prefer, switching their positions to see if you still prefer the same one in the other's position.

 

[MacManNM]

While the loudness issue is generally true, you need to also know that just because the SPL ratings are the same, doesn't necessarily meant they will play at the same loudness.
A speaker that is 8-ohms and rated at 87db, will play at the same level as a 4-ohm speaker rated at 90db, in your A/B test.

 

[Blundaar]

I'm right there with you. These are the specs on that bad boy:
330 watts per channel, minimum RMS, both channels driven, at 4 or 8 ohms, from 20 - 20,000 Hz, with no more than 0.03% total harmonic distortion. 87 freakin lbs. !!!

Compare that to the heralded Denon 5805 that weighs 92 lbs, sporting 10 channels at 170 watts a piece. The Technics is only TWO channels. They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

Mine wasn't that monsterous. Here is a picture of mine. Only 80 wpc but with same output frequencies and .005 thd.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Mine wasn't that monsterous. Here is a picture of mine. Only 80 wpc but with same output frequencies and .005 thd.

That's a nice looking unit. Well built.

I recommend that you carefully level match the different speakers for the same volume (which means you will probably have to change the volume control each time you switch between speakers.

That's a good suggestion. I'd also add to try and make each of the speakers you are demoing sound as good as you can, using a familiar cd. Dial in your bass/treble controls to your preference. Play it at a preferred volume - that's how you'll listen to them. You'll know pretty quickly which you like better.

The biggest issue you'll run into is upgrading your receiver/amp. More power will mean better bass/cleaner mids and highs. A weak receiver may make $150 horn loaded, efficient bookshevles sound great. That same receiver would also make a set of electrostats sound terrible.

 

[mtrycrafts]

A speaker that is 8-ohms and rated at 87db, will play at the same level as a 4-ohm speaker rated at 90db, in your A/B test.

That would depend on how exactly the sensitivity was measured at 1 m, right?

90 dB will not sound the same level as 87dB.

 

[MDS]

That would depend on how exactly the sensitivity was measured at 1 m, right?

90 dB will not sound the same level as 87dB.

I don't think that's what Mac meant. The typical sensitivity rating is given as 1 watt at 1 meter. But 1 'watt' is 2.83 volts into an 8 ohm load and twice that into a 4 ohm load. You have to take that into consideration so you are comparing apples to apples. 87dB/1W/1M into 8 Ohms = 90dB/1W/1M at 4 Ohms.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don't think that's what Mac meant. The typical sensitivity rating is given as 1 watt at 1 meter. But 1 'watt' is 2.83 volts into an 8 ohm load and twice that into a 4 ohm load. You have to take that into consideration so you are comparing apples to apples. 87dB/1W/1M into 8 Ohms = 90dB/1W/1M at 4 Ohms.

That is why I asked him, precisely

In a speaker level matching, you are worried about spl sameness. And in this tester's case, he is not worried about the power out from the amp and am sure he will not use a voltmeter. So, the best he might do is an spl meter, a test signal. That will do him well

 

[newtoitall]

WOW!! lots of answers,
If I read anything into what already has been said, it is that the volume that a speaker is played directly affects the quality of the sound from that speaker. This makes it very difficult for layman like myself to judge what speaker being tested is the most accurate when of different sensitivity ratings.

Regards
Frank

 

[markw]

Not quite

it is that the volume that a speaker is played directly affects the quality of the sound from that speaker.

it's more like the volume that a speaker is played directly affects PRECEPTION of the quality of the sound from that speaker.

The better speaker may be less efficient than a lesser speaker, therefor at the same setting on the volume control, it would not play as loud. Try this wit ha pair of Best Buy Klipschs and a Magnapan. Not that either are bad or good, but here's a case where one will be enormously louder than the other at the same volume control setting.

This was a common trick in the old days of stereo and still may be used. They would have two speakers playing but would "boost" the signal to the speaker they wanted to sell. The unwary listener would normally gravitate towards the louder of the two speakers, even though it may be inferior in all other aspects.

the human mind.. gotta love it.

Yes, it does make it a little difficult but, with practice and careful listening, and knowing what to listen for it can me doable. ...but it takes time and patience.

 

[newtoitall]

When I listen to a set of speakers, I try to distinguish how high the speaker reaches and how low, how clear the highs seem to be and how tight the low end sounds, also how far the sound field reaches compared to the position of the speakers.
Weather or not these are the correct things to be looking for in a speaker I'm not sure, but, this is what I look for.
Can volume effect my perception of these qualities enough to sway me to choose a speaker of lesser quality?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[markw]

Can volume effect my perception of these qualities enough to sway me to choose a speaker of lesser quality?

If you are not careful, yes. Remember, some men are attracted to a woman who is amply endowed only to find out later in the relationship that although the initial attraction was strong, there's more to it than that and thats something important is lacking.

but, an in home trial is always a good thing. This may apply to both.

 

[Pyrrho]

When I listen to a set of speakers, I try to distinguish how high the speaker reaches and how low, how clear the highs seem to be and how tight the low end sounds, also how far the sound field reaches compared to the position of the speakers.
Weather or not these are the correct things to be looking for in a speaker I'm not sure, but, this is what I look for.
Can volume effect my perception of these qualities enough to sway me to choose a speaker of lesser quality?

Thanks,
Frank

Yes. I explained this above:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=99649&postcount=7

The amount of bass and treble that you perceive is directly related to the volume of the sound. And, of course, if something is louder, but otherwise identical, the bass and treble will tend to appear more distinct and detailed. There is a reason the phrase "loud and clear" is so often used. If something is too quiet, it will not appear clear to you.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Sorry mate. Just couldn't resist!

...some men are attracted to a woman who is amply endowed only to find out later in the relationship that although the initial attraction was strong, there's more to it than that...

What? She is a he?!

...and that something important is lacking.

Hahahahahaha!

Regards

 

[PENG]

I don't think that's what Mac meant. The typical sensitivity rating is given as 1 watt at 1 meter. But 1 'watt' is 2.83 volts into an 8 ohm load and twice that into a 4 ohm load. You have to take that into consideration so you are comparing apples to apples. 87dB/1W/1M into 8 Ohms = 90dB/1W/1M at 4 Ohms.

Unless I misunderstood, if you are comparing SPL, shouldn't it be:
87dB/1W/1M into 8 ohms = 90dB/0.5W/1M at 4 ohms.