Should I Bi-amp?

[timoteo]

I am running B&W 683's as my front L&R. They are rated at 200w. My reciever is 100w per ch. If I by amp will i get BETTER sound or just MORE volume?

Also, would it any better to bi-amp than to just bi-wire?

I ask because in order to bi-amp i have to sacrifice my 6th & 7th ch. Going from 7.2 down to 5.2
Advice?

 

[Davemcc]

If I by amp will i get BETTER sound

No.

or just MORE volume?

No.

Also, would it any better to bi-amp than to just bi-wire?

You are unlikely to gain any benefit by doing either.

 

[anamorphic96]

No.



No.



You are unlikely to gain any benefit by doing either.

I second this post.

Unless you are using external electronic crossovers and identical seperate amps for each speaker there is no real benefit. Bi-Amping is really only needed for larger commercial cinema applications. Its just more BS marketing that companies are trying to use so you will buy their product.

 

[CraigV]

Why not give it a try and decide for yourself? Nothing you would do is irreversible.

 

[fast1]

yea i agree, nothing beats finding out first hand.

 

[bandphan]

I second this post.

Unless you are using external electronic crossovers and identical seperate amps for each speaker there is no real benefit. Bi-Amping is really only needed for larger commercial cinema applications. Its just more BS marketing that companies are trying to use so you will buy their product.

true one power supply doesnt add much, but a touch of added power and without an external crossover to dictate where the power goes, agian not much

Why not give it a try and decide for yourself? Nothing you would do is irreversible.

true, but why take away from the avr's dynamic power

yea i agree, nothing beats finding out first hand.

if you forget to pull the cord on the chute, do you need to find out first hand?


As dave stated the speakers are easy to drive, and with the room thats sounds like enough

 

[markw]

If each of the four amps in a bi-amp configuration had their own separate power supply and transformer, then you might have a figiting chance of a significant difference. A powered crossover helps, too, and is considered mandatory by some.

 

[gholt]

I was going to do this for my speakers until I found out that the tweeters were not rated at the 500 w that the rest of the speaker was. Glad I found this out frst before I would have blown them. So, they sound great how they are.

 

[j_garcia]

I was going to do this for my speakers until I found out that the tweeters were not rated at the 500 w that the rest of the speaker was. Glad I found this out frst before I would have blown them. So, they sound great how they are.

It doesn't really matter what the speakers are rated for since that is a MAX rating and most will likely never drive them with that much power and because as long as you feed them clean, unclipped power, they should be fine.

Bi-wiring makes zero difference. Bi-amping with external amplification can make a noticeable difference, but as most have said here already it would take an active crossover to get the most out of it.

 

[lsiberian]

It doesn't really matter what the speakers are rated for since that is a MAX rating and most will likely never drive them with that much power and because as long as you feed them clean, unclipped power, they should be fine.

Bi-wiring makes zero difference. Bi-amping with external amplification can make a noticeable difference, but as most have said here already it would take an active crossover to get the most out of it.

It would take an activer crossover to make any real difference period. I suggest not doing this with any commercial speaker. Especially something as high quality as a B&W.

 

[TLS Guy]

This question comes up eternally. So what are the pros and cons of biamping. First there is biamping via the speakers internal crossovers, and there is biamping with active electronic crossovers ahead of the amplifiers.

Advantages of biamping.

1). Reduces insertion loss of passive crossovers. This is negated unless active crossovers are used.

2). Reduces distortion and problems of reactance of passive crossovers, especially with lower crossover points. Again this advantage is only gained with active crossovers.

3). Increases power available to the speaker as long as the crossover point is around 400 Hz. 400 Hz is the area of the power divide. As the crossover point is raised the power advantage is rapidly lost, as the power required to produce those frequencies rapidly diminishes.

4). Theoretically biamping can reduce inter modulation distortion. However this is a non issue with competently designed amplifiers.

Disadvantages of biamping.

1). Requires a complex electronic crossover that has to be designed to the drivers just like a passive one. So advantages of biamping are only truly realized with a design done from the ground up with active crossovers.

2). One amplifier with twice the power versus two amps of half the power biamped is less likely to clip. The reason is that program is variable. Say we have one 200 watt amp versus two one hundred watt amps biamped at 400 Hz. If the program calls for 150 watts below 400 Hz, then the HF amp sits idly by while the LF amp clips. The 200 watt amp might well not have clipped.

3). If different amps are used there is great opportunity to introduce serious phase problems at crossover, unless the amps phase responses are known and corrected.

4). Generally costs will be increased as well as complexity.

In general the advantages of biamping are only realized with crossover points below 500 Hz using active crossover as part of a total design solution.

The reason being that passive crossovers in the 1.5 to 5 kHz range are far less deleterious than passive crossovers below 500 Hz. In my view crossover points below 350 Hz are best accomplished with active crossovers.

This comes up so often, I wonder if we could make this post a sticky.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for posting that list. Too many times I've read posts where people reflexively say that active crossovers are always an improvement over passive crossovers. Under the right conditions - yes, but there are quite a few conditions where active crossovers are expensive, complex, and offer no real improvement over properly designed passive crossovers. You've explained that well.

 

[walter duque]

I have my center bi-amped. Speaker is rated at 220 watts. I am running 350 wattsX2. So far everything is holding up good. My hearing might not be that good anymore but I can't tell the difference. IMO it sounds better just with one amp, but then again that just me.

 

[cwall99]

So I have a question on this issue, and I'd be interested in hearing the cognoscenti's response(s).

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX82... (I can never remember the stupid model number). It's a 7.1 AVR, but I'm only driving 5 speakers. But the AVR has a set up screen where you can configure what you want to do with, if your set up is like mine, the two unused amplifiers. It allows you to select a) nothing (the default setting), b) run a second zone, or c) bi-amp.

Since I push five speakers in my set up (B&W DM603 s3s for the main left and right, a B&W LCR600 for the center, and a couple of older NHTs as my surrounds), and I don't have a second zone, I've considered bi-amping... just for grins (because all three of the B&W speakers would allow you to do it; I would just bi-amp the left and right mains).

I know that I would have to:

a) configure the receiver to bi-amp the left and rights through that set up screen I mentioned above
b) remove the jumpers from the 603s
c) run separate cables from the 6th and 7th channel speaker outputs on the receiver to the second set of binding posts on each of the 603s

My questions:

If I've done all this correctly, have I really bi-amped my speakers?

Based on all the discussion and references to active crossovers, if an AVR allows you to do this, does it have an active crossover internally, or would that require an additional external piece of gear?

Thanks.

 

[lsiberian]

This question comes up eternally. So what are the pros and cons of biamping. First there is biamping via the speakers internal crossovers, and there is biamping with active electronic crossovers ahead of the amplifiers.

Advantages of biamping.

1). Reduces insertion loss of passive crossovers. This is negated unless active crossovers are used.

2). Reduces distortion and problems of reactance of passive crossovers, especially with lower crossover points. Again this advantage is only gained with active crossovers.

3). Increases power available to the speaker as long as the crossover point is around 400 Hz. 400 Hz is the area of the power divide. As the crossover point is raised the power advantage is rapidly lost, as the power required to produce those frequencies rapidly diminishes.

4). Theoretically biamping can reduce inter modulation distortion. However this is a non issue with competently designed amplifiers.

Disadvantages of biamping.

1). Requires a complex electronic crossover that has to be designed to the drivers just like a passive one. So advantages of biamping are only truly realized with a design done from the ground up with active crossovers.

2). One amplifier with twice the power versus two amps of half the power biamped is less likely to clip. The reason is that program is variable. Say we have one 200 watt amp versus two one hundred watt amps biamped at 400 Hz. If the program calls for 150 watts below 400 Hz, then the HF amp sits idly by while the LF amp clips. The 200 watt amp might well not have clipped.

3). If different amps are used there is great opportunity to introduce serious phase problems at crossover, unless the amps phase responses are known and corrected.

4). Generally costs will be increased as well as complexity.

In general the advantages of biamping are only realized with crossover points below 500 Hz using active crossover as part of a total design solution.

The reason being that passive crossovers in the 1.5 to 5 kHz range are far less deleterious than passive crossovers below 500 Hz. In my view crossover points below 350 Hz are best accomplished with active crossovers.

This comes up so often, I wonder if we could make this post a sticky.

I want to add that active can be a way to avoid making passive crossovers too. Fear of Soldering might drive one to go active.

 

[DD66000]

I am running B&W 683's as my front L&R. They are rated at 200w. My reciever is 100w per ch. If I by amp will i get BETTER sound or just MORE volume?

Also, would it any better to bi-amp than to just bi-wire?

I ask because in order to bi-amp i have to sacrifice my 6th & 7th ch. Going from 7.2 down to 5.2
Advice?

Better off just buying a high power stereo amp to drive the mains, or a 3-channel amp to drive the LCRs.

 

[cwall99]

Better off just buying a high power stereo amp to drive the mains, or a 3-channel amp to drive the LCRs.

But if you're like me, with a 7.1 receiver, and you're only pushing 5 speakers, what harm is there in using those two unused amp channels to push the woofers on your main left and right towers?

 

[Nemo128]

I think there might be some confusion regarding the differences between bi-amping and bridging.

 

[walter duque]

But if you're like me, with a 7.1 receiver, and you're only pushing 5 speakers, what harm is there in using those two unused amp channels to push the woofers on your main left and right towers?

In that case I think you're better off using a seperate amp to get better sound. If you're using the other 2 channels of your receiver you're still pulling from the same powersupplies so I don't see any gain in that. But if you think it sounds better then go for it.

 

[Swerd]

I know that I would have to:

a) configure the receiver to bi-amp the left and rights through that set up screen I mentioned above
b) remove the jumpers from the 603s
c) run separate cables from the 6th and 7th channel speaker outputs on the receiver to the second set of binding posts on each of the 603s

My questions:

If I've done all this correctly, have I really bi-amped my speakers?

Yes, you've done all that correctly, but no you would not really be bi-amping. Most AV receivers have one power supply transformer that supplies all the speaker channels. I'm assuming yours is like that. Whether you use 5 channels or 7 in the way you've described, you still have the same power supply capacity. To get any real benefit from bi-amping you need not only additional power output channels, but additional power supply capacity.

Based on all the discussion and references to active crossovers, if an AVR allows you to do this, does it have an active crossover internally, or would that require an additional external piece of gear?

AVRs do have internal active crossovers to control the bass hand-off between a subwoofer and main speakers, but no AVR that I know of has crossovers that can work in the frequency range you would need for your main speakers.