Set wireless rear speakers in a 5.1 system as stereo mains?

[LiveJazz]

Please help me think through this:

I'm setting up my rear speakers in my surround system wirelessly, and would like the option to run then separately from there rest of the system as 2.0 or 2.1 stereo. The rear area of the sytem (behind the couch) will be near a little seating/library area, and I'd like to be able listen there separately. Also, my rears will be rather different speakers from my mains (NHT SuperZeros vs TBD mains...possibly NHT Absolute Towers, possibly Arx, possibly SongTowers if I can talk myself into that $$$), and I just want to be able to listen to them alone. I'll probably use a Marantz NR1604.

Is this possible with the receiver I have in mind, or any others? I know you can rig a way to do it with a separate stereo amp using a zone two output or something like that, but I'm hoping there's an easy way to use one receiver to do this, and easily switch between using the speakers as surrounds vs stereo mains. After going some Googling, it doesn't look promising, but I figured if anyone can help, it's someone here!

Thanks

 

[avengineer]

What you're trying to do is use the same speakers for a "Zone 2" function as the surround. The AVR won't do that, in fact, none of them will. The power amp channels that can be assigned to different functions are the Surround Back channels, which can be either set for Surround Back or Zone 2 (2.0 stereo). If you're just doing 5.1 in the main system, you must use the Surround L and R speaker outputs.

To complicate matters, if you were to install a switch that connected the surround speakers to either the Surround L and R outputs or the Surround Back outputs for Zone 2, and decided to use them for Zone 2 while watching a movie with 5.1 channel sound, the surround information would have nowhere to go, yet the system will not revert to 2.1 channels either. That may be a livable compromise, but you should at least be aware of it.

Not sure what wireless speakers you plan to use, but there are no line-level surround outputs, speaker outputs only.

So, if you really want to do this, what you need is a speaker selector like this:
HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more!

That thing is actually overkill for what you're doing, but it would work. You set your system up for 5.1 with Surround Back outputs set for Zone 2 operation. Using the switcher you can assign the surround speakers to either surround function or zone 2. Keeping in mind, we're dealing with speaker outputs here, and some wireless speakers are expecting line-level inputs. You should determine that first.

 

[Adam]

Hi. Before getting into if you can set up a receiver in the way that you want - how are you planning on running your NHTs wirelessly? That might offer some options that the normal receiver setup doesn't. Well, or make it clear that you can't do what you want. The wireless systems that I have used run off of RCA audio jacks (the pre-outs). If you will be running off of speaker-level terminals, I do recall seeing some 5.1 receivers that allow you to assign the surround speaker terminals to "bi-amp" the fronts, which would be the same as running the rears as your main speakers.

EDIT: Also, I'm currently using an NR1604, and I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have about it.

 

[LiveJazz]

Hi. Before getting into if you can set up a receiver in the way that you want - how are you planning on running your NHTs wirelessly? That might offer some options that the normal receiver setup doesn't. Well, or make it clear that you can't do what you want. The wireless systems that I have used run off of RCA audio jacks (the pre-outs). If you will be running off of speaker-level terminals, I do recall seeing some 5.1 receivers that allow you to assign the surround speaker terminals to "bi-amp" the fronts, which would be the same as running the rears as your main speakers.

EDIT: Also, I'm currently using an NR1604, and I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have about it.

Thanks!! That's simple.

Setting the surround channels to bi-amp the fronts sounds like the perfect solution, and one that I could turn on and off with relative ease ...I'll check the manuals beforehand to make sure the receiver I upgrade to will do this.

Since I don't believe the receiver I have in mind has preouts for all channels, I guess I'd have to use speaker terminals for the wireless transmitter. I don't know exactly which wireless solution I'd use. Maybe SoundCast or Amphony...something that has built-in amplification. Although I guess I could stick a little Lepai back there and just use transmitters alone. Outlaw makes some that have good reviews when used with a separate amp.


Are you happy with the sound and available power of the NR1604? I like it because of the smallish form factor, and I just have a thing for Marantz (I have a vintage stereo receiver from them and love it). 50wpc originally made me wary, but I gather that they rated it more conservatively than most other manufactures give it (@20-20,000 hz as opposed to the more forgiving measurement at 1khz). I also like that the specs list power output at 8 and 6ohm, meaning the unit is approved to power speakers with slightly more impedance.

Regarding the possible solution above, does the NR1604 allow rear channels to bi-amp the fronts? It's 7.1ch, and I'll have 5.1 set up, so I'll have two extra channels I could dedicate for that purpose.

 

[Adam]

Are you happy with the sound and available power of the NR1604? I like it because of the smallish form factor, and I just have a thing for Marantz (I have a vintage stereo receiver from them and love it). 50wpc originally made me wary, but I gather that they rated it more conservatively than most other manufactures give it (@20-20,000 hz as opposed to the more forgiving measurement at 1khz). I also like that the specs list power output at 8 and 6ohm, meaning the unit is approved to power speakers with slightly more impedance.

I really like the form factor. I just started evaluating it, but I like it so far. I just finished evaluating the NR1504, which has the exact same chassis but is 5.1. I found the 1504 lacking in power when I turned it up louder than I normally listen (I have a test DVD that I use to check if I think a receiver has enough juice). I expect to find the same with the 1604 because they are rated the same, but I haven't done that, yet. Both the Onkyo TX-NR626 and Denon AVR-E400 sounded great at high volume (and they are both around 90W/channel versus 50W/channel using the same criteria), and they are in the same price class. I also like the Pioneer VSX-1123, but I'm an MCACC fan.

The NR1604 is a nice step up from the NR1504, IMO, even for folks only looking for 5.1. While the menu system is virtually the same (except for options specific to the 1604), the menu graphics on the 1504 look like something from an 80's computer with blocky fonts. It's baffling, really, as I'd think that the processor could have handled the very nice interface from the 1604. I just like the 1604 better.

Regarding the possible solution above, does the NR1604 allow rear channels to bi-amp the fronts? It's 7.1ch, and I'll have 5.1 set up, so I'll have two extra channels I could dedicate for that purpose.

You can assign the surround back speaker terminals to bi-amp your fronts, or act as a second second of main speakers (I think that those are the same function, but they probably split it into two options to reduce confusion). As avengineer said, those are the surround back terminals, which aren't the ones that you'd use for a 5.1 system. However, if you get a wireless setup that lets you switch, then you don't need to worry about switching things on the receiver.

 

[LiveJazz]

What you're trying to do is use the same speakers for a "Zone 2" function as the surround. The AVR won't do that, in fact, none of them will. The power amp channels that can be assigned to different functions are the Surround Back channels, which can be either set for Surround Back or Zone 2 (2.0 stereo). If you're just doing 5.1 in the main system, you must use the Surround L and R speaker outputs.

To complicate matters, if you were to install a switch that connected the surround speakers to either the Surround L and R outputs or the Surround Back outputs for Zone 2, and decided to use them for Zone 2 while watching a movie with 5.1 channel sound, the surround information would have nowhere to go, yet the system will not revert to 2.1 channels either. That may be a livable compromise, but you should at least be aware of it.

Not sure what wireless speakers you plan to use, but there are no line-level surround outputs, speaker outputs only.

So, if you really want to do this, what you need is a speaker selector like this:
HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more!

That thing is actually overkill for what you're doing, but it would work. You set your system up for 5.1 with Surround Back outputs set for Zone 2 operation. Using the switcher you can assign the surround speakers to either surround function or zone 2. Keeping in mind, we're dealing with speaker outputs here, and some wireless speakers are expecting line-level inputs. You should determine that first.

Thanks for these details. I don't think I'd ever wish to both listen to music on the rears AND watch a movie on the two "systems within a system" at the same time...they would be too close to each other...not pleasant. It would be one or the other. That being the case, would that selector still be a benefit? For example, if I were to have a 7.1 receiver and permanently set two of the rears as main output, would the receiver revert to 5.1 when those channels are not set to be used as mains? That's what I'm after.

So in summary, here's what I'm after:

-I'd have a 7.1 receiver (jsut because most of the good one are), but I'd only use 5.1 channels
-I'd rather have the rear speakers connected via wireless to one set of rear outputs (just the rears, as opposed to switching between surround L/R and rears to use the speakers as mains vs 5.1)et t
-I'd like to be able to she receiver (as opposed to an external selector/switch) to use the rears as mains. I do not expect to ever use the rears as mains WHILE watching a movie. If I understand correctly, that would be the reason to use the external switch, right?

Thanks again