Revealing Flaws in the Loudspeaker Demo & Double Blind Test

[psbfan9]

Human mood swings tend to play a big part, one day sessions are interesting - however?????

I think this is a very important point. Some days I love jazz, other days, not so much.
I think when it comes to things like this, there are too many variables. I have said it before the way I have my system set up would make most of you faint. But, to me, it sounds great. Gene can say "It's the best speaker I have ever heard". Someone is going to buy that speaker and hook up using a Kenwood receiver from the 70's they found in the attic and hook those speakers up using the thinnest of wires (like that that comes with HTIB systems) and think Gene is out of his mind or being paid to like everything the company sends him. Believe it or not, some people like Bose.

 

[gtpsuper24]

LOL! Anyone who preaches you should buy speakers based on measurements or DBT's alone (or both) probably has hearing problems. At the very least they should be ignored.

No measurements just their own tightly controlled DBT with their staff.

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

Yes, I agree. Still the MTM won't do much when the tweeter takes over in the treble. I'm not complaining here, just commenting.



But since they're not a "warm" speaker either, every once in a while there's some harshness. Could be the recording, could be room interaction. My point was that people's perceptions are based off so many things and they can be vastly different even for the same speaker!! Only speakers with extreme tonality will have consistent perceptions.

Have you checked for any interference on the mids cone with the pole piece? When i first received my e55's I did hear a harshness on occasion. I found that one of the midrange drivers would make a scratchy noise when I pushed the cone in and out. Replaced driver and no more harshness!

If you choose to remove your carpet, you will find that your speakers will sound as if the highs are rolled off even more than you think they already are. The carpet eliminates a lot of the bounce from the three lower woofers in the tower, and if the carpet is removed, it overwhelms the highs.

 

[ferkan]

The DBT: A Money Saver

For me the purpose of a HiFi DBT is to save me money. Now that I realise most amps essentially sound the same when used appropriately (according to DBTs), I don't have to waste time and money on upgrading mine. This is a huge thing to have to accept, having spent many years believing that the choice of amp was important. The cognitive dissonance is significant!

Now for speakers. Well there clearly is a difference as demonstrated by DBT. Ideally then, when choosing speakers (as stated) I would like to take them all home and get a friend to help me run a repeated double blind test. In the real world though... I'm not sure my local hifi shop would be up for it.

 

[cutedaddy]

Double blind testing

Dear Gene,

Although i applaud, and largely agree with, your arguments on DBT, i have to disagree it has no (or 'little') place in audio. Especially the snake-oil and science fiction you so boldly fight, can easily be retributed by double blind testing. Not in loudspeaker evaluation obviously, as you comprehensively point out, but for identifying bogus cable-, amp-, dac-, dsp-, rew-, drc-, connector-, electronics components-, etc.etc.- claims, DBT is THE MOST EFFECTIVE MYTH BUSTER. Are those components better? Well, prove to me you even hear a difference by identifying 'em in a DB listening-T, would you please? So for proving true negatives in almost all component-comparisons except speakers, i would think DBT-ing is extremely useful. Am i being impertinent, my dear master audioholic?

 

[gene]

Dear Gene,

Although i applaud, and largely agree with, your arguments on DBT, i have to disagree it has no (or 'little') place in audio. Especially the snake-oil and science fiction you so boldly fight, can easily be retributed by double blind testing. Not in loudspeaker evaluation obviously, as you comprehensively point out, but for identifying bogus cable-, amp-, dac-, dsp-, rew-, drc-, connector-, electronics components-, etc.etc.- claims, DBT is THE MOST EFFECTIVE MYTH BUSTER. Are those components better? Well, prove to me you even hear a difference by identifying 'em in a DB listening-T, would you please? So for proving true negatives in almost all component-comparisons except speakers, i would think DBT-ing is extremely useful. Am i being impertinent, my dear master audioholic?

Excellent observations and I agree 100% However, Single Blind Tests are adequate even for cable testing. True DBT's are very difficult and often impractical to setup. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[gene]

For me the purpose of a HiFi DBT is to save me money. Now that I realise most amps essentially sound the same when used appropriately (according to DBTs), I don't have to waste time and money on upgrading mine. This is a huge thing to have to accept, having spent many years believing that the choice of amp was important. The cognitive dissonance is significant!

Now for speakers. Well there clearly is a difference as demonstrated by DBT. Ideally then, when choosing speakers (as stated) I would like to take them all home and get a friend to help me run a repeated double blind test. In the real world though... I'm not sure my local hifi shop would be up for it.

Again you're not really running a true DBT unless you don't know what speakers are being tested, the person running the test doesn't know what speakers are being tested, and the person analyzing the data doesn't know what speakers are being tested. Single Blind Test is sufficient.

Also, all Amps do NOT sound the same, even when NOT driven beyond linearity. Sorry to burst your bubble on that but there often are sonic differences even at low listening levels. Admittedly with good amps, those differences are often subtle and depend on speaker load, source material and listening conditions to flesh them out.