Request detailed Power Conditioner review

[PaulF]

Guys, I would like to request that you do a Power Conditioner (PC) review with detailed measurements to confirm performance. With advanced PC prices getting up there, I am interested to know if they perform as claimed.

Specific things I would like to see...

- Noise filtering measurements e.g. how do they handle a coffee grinder ( or any other motor device) plugged into the same supply circuit? Also how good is isolation between output circuits/banks.
- High voltage/lightning protection. Are they any better, both clamp voltage and repeatability, than your average surge protector strip? Perhaps you can use a stun gun as the source.
- Voltage regulation. Is it truly a regulation circuit or just basic switch that taps several transformer windings based on the input voltage?
- Load performance. I have two XPA amps which Emotive recommends to not connect to a PC (mine are not installed yet). Does the average PC limit available current to high power electronics?
- Front panel meters. Are they accurate? Do they actually measure the true voltages and currents, or are they just an approximation?
- Do overvoltage and undervoltage circuits work as promised, triggering on accurate thresholds? Are they user settable? With a projector (and no UPS) would you be better served trying to clamp the voltage rather than shut down the power and risk reducing bulb life?

Maybe some of my requested tests are extreme but it seems there is little to no tangible measurements on the performance of these products. Given the extraordinary amount of time devoted to electrically testing passive speaker cables, the fact that a bad PC could easily have a more negative effect your system's performance, and that pricing for these devices can often outweigh speaker/interconnect cables, is it time for a more thorough review?

Will AH take the lead?

 

[j_garcia]

The thing about the reviews here is, if the company in question doesn't send something to AH to be reviewed, then it doesn't get reviewed. If you want a review, contact the manufacturer and tell them to send one to AH.

 

[PaulF]

I'd be willing to do that if AH would tell us what product would make a worthwhile test unit.

I am currently looking at Panamax/Furman (same company) and Tributaries. Manufacturers details leave something be be desired. I can't even find a spec sheet for the Tributaries products. Perhaps I should be looking elsewhere.

However even one detailed review of any manufacturer's product would at least set a base line.

 

[j_garcia]

Ideally, you shouldn't have a coffee grinder, lights on dimmers, or large fluorescent fixtures or other noisy items on the same circuit as your audio gear. No testing required there.

I doubt any commercial unit will really protect against a direct lightning strike.

I have my XPA-3 connected to the high current outlet on my Panamax and it is fine. I didn't ask Emotiva if this is OK, but I don't have another wall outlet that I can use. According to Emotiva, the unit has built in surge suppression which is why it doesn't need to be plugged into anything else.

 

[PaulF]

Also according to Emotiva, and I have spoken to them at length, a limited supply from the wall can force the voltage rails to sag under heavy load. The amps are not current limited (nor are the voltage rails regulated) so this can stress the amps and cause them to fail prematurely.

In a perfect world we would not need a PC, but alas nothing is perfect

You make a good argument for not having one at all. Perhaps a cheap $30 surge protector will do. But I keep hearing miraculous stories of how people's video immediately improved upon inserting a PC.

Sure would be nice to have real lab measurements.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... But I keep hearing miraculous stories of how people's video immediately improved upon inserting a PC.
...

That's all they are, stories Humans have great imaginations, don't forget.

 

[PaulF]

Could someone explain these numbers from Tom Andry's APC AV H15 review...

AVR Range: There are only three setting here - Wide, Normal and Narrow. Narrow regulates to 120 volts plus/minus 5% (or 102-132 Volts). Normal is 120 +/- 10% (97-139 Volts) and Wide is 120 +/- 15% (92-145 Volts). We suggest you start with Narrow. If you find that the H15 is running into boost/trim issues too often, bump it up. I had mine set to Narrow and almost never had it adjust.

How does 120V +/- the percentages shown equate to the min/max voltages listed?

 

[MDS]

How does 120V +/- the percentages shown equate to the min/max voltages listed?

When the voltage falls below the lower threshold or rises above the upper threshold the voltage regulator kicks in and returns the voltage to 120v. As long as the incoming voltage remains within the range you have chosen, the unit does nothing.

 

[jkelly3493]

Voltage Regulation vs. UPS?

I just joined, so is there a good link someone can direct me to?

Not being familiar with the terminology, I'm looking for a unit that will keep the voltage within a certain tolerance for our home theater system. I'm actually more concerned about day-to-day high voltage, but not surges, although I want to protect for surges too.

I see the UPS protects for surges, but from what I can tell, voltage regulation is a separate unit or feature? And surge protecton is not necessarily a battery backup (UPS)...

Sorry if these are overly basic questions...can you give me some advice on the terminology should I be looking for? Thanks so much!

 

[j_garcia]

You make a good argument for not having one at all. Perhaps a cheap $30 surge protector will do. But I keep hearing miraculous stories of how people's video immediately improved upon inserting a PC.

I wouldn't call it miraculous I bought my Panamax for about 50% off and was curious to see if it would make any improvements in the audio. It did not, but I was surprised to find that I DID notice a slight improvement in video. I was using a CRT at the time and I was in an old apartment with a LOT of people and some less than perfect wiring. It definitely wasn't night and day, but it was noticeable.

 

[Jack Hammer]

That's all they are, stories Humans have great imaginations, don't forget.

I recall a review here where AH noticed an improvement in video. It was, however, nothing miraculous. IIRC, it just filtered out some interference (electrical noise) caused from poor wiring, flourescent lighting, or something along those lines. The TV itself did not magically gain any performance even though an improvement was noted.

 

[PaulF]

When the voltage falls below the lower threshold or rises above the upper threshold the voltage regulator kicks in and returns the voltage to 120v. As long as the incoming voltage remains within the range you have chosen, the unit does nothing.

OK, at a high level I can agree that's how it works, but what does it really do in practice? For example, using Tom's numbers for plus/minus 5% variation (or 102-132 Volts), a unit could sit at 105 Volts all day long and never boost the voltage back up to 120V. According to Tom's numbers a unit could swing as wide as +12/-18V and never provide any regulation towards 120V. It's hard to imagine that after one of these thresholds is crossed the unit now regulates to exactly 120V. My guess it it just boosts or cuts enough to bring it back within the tightest +/- zone. But that's just a guess.

Now regarding Tom's numbers... to me 120V +/- 5% would equate to +/- 6V. I still don't understand how Tom came up with his numbers?

 

[PaulF]

I recall a review here where AH noticed an improvement in video. It was, however, nothing miraculous. IIRC, it just filtered out some interference (electrical noise) caused from poor wiring, flourescent lighting, or something along those lines. The TV itself did not magically gain any performance even though an improvement was noted.

I can see perhaps some noise improvement in analog video displays which include all CRTs... but digital displays should be fairly immune.

I am still open to the idea of a PC but my confidence in this entire line of products is rapidly diminishing.

 

[Hyfi]

I got good results from APC's H15

Site won't let me post links yet so google APC H15

This is a little more than just a surge protector and I noticed subtle sound improvements after swapping out an older Panamax 1000+.

Don't listen to the nay sayers, give one a try yourself.

It may not have much of an effect on MTRYs Boom Box.

 

[popotoys]

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10839&cs_id=1083901&p_id=4153&seq=1&format=2

Looks good, reviewers have said the lights can't be dimmed though.