Recommendations for upgrade: to have fuller but fast and crisp sound

[sevenz]

Hi everyone! I'm new & have just started out into this hobby earlier this year thanks to my good friend. Have been reading the posts here and it's very informative. But recently cant decide what is the best way to proceed. Can I trouble the bros here to give me some advise & recommendations?

Currently, I am seeking to have a more full but fast and crisp sound as I listen to quite a fair bit of Bluray 5.1 concerts e.g andre bocelli, lots of vocals and instruments. My listening preferences are mainly: Bluray music 5.1 concerts/5.1 Movies/CD music = 55%/40%/5%.

Here's the dilemma I am facing:
For the fronts, I am playing with 3 used bookshelf sets to compare sound: Cambridge S30, Polk Audio TSI200; B&W 705. S30s were really lovely, fast, precise, crisp, but a little too small to produce a full sound for vocals for the size of my living room. The TSI200 is full & very warm but not as precise as S30. B&W705 is good in spatial separation but considering that it is 3x the price of my polk and cambridge, the 3x gain I expected wasnt there, but suspect it will be better with more juice. Current setup: Yamaha AVR RX-V1900, Infinity PC351 centre, Cambridge audio S20 rears, HSU ULS-15 sub.

Assuming that, centre, surrounds & sub is to stay, I love the sound of S30 but want a fuller sound, should I:
(i) Totally change to a new fronts, keep AVR - if yes, which bookshelf speaker do you recommend?
(ii) Invest in a 2-channel 200WPC amp, use AVR as preamp, and keep the 705
(iii) Change to a new pre/power setup e.g. Emotiva XPA5/UMC1
(iv) your recommendations? (I am open) ;D ;D

The size of my listening area is 6m by 4m (seated on the long side), and the most important: budget $800. ;D haha... thanks in advance for the help!

 

[zieglj01]

Do you live in the USA?

Also, I would plan to match the center with the fronts.

 

[jm78]

I would change out the center and rear speakers. Then get identically matching 5 speakers since 5.1 music matters a lot to you.

I haven't heard them, but it seems the ascend acoustics cmt-340se would be a good option since the center speaker is roughly the same as the mains. I would probably try out 2 at first. Then order 3 more if I liked them.

I had the infinity pc350 center, similar to yours. It was definitely lacking musically compared to the p362 when I turned on 5.0 stereo mode.

Woops, my recommendation went over budget. Oh well.

 

[ImcLoud]

I would get 5 cbm170se's that will cost round 850. They are fast neutral loud and clear... Very flat and realistic.... It's good sized bookshelf but not huge. For playing music through all 5 speakers I would make sure they are all the same, that is where you are going to run into cost issues because having bookshelfs powerful enough to run as fronts all the way around is expensive... Another option is wharfedale diamond 10.2's. they are 450 per pair and then 340 for a center so they are going to be way over budget...

The cbm170s are very powerful and ill have no trouble filling a medium sized room...

 

[sevenz]

Thanks for the inputs zieg and jm78! Can you help me better understand more on the theory having matching centre and fronts? And how important in a 5.1 setup

Cos I have heard 2 sides of the coin so I'm confused.... haha... One group believes that it doesnt quite matter as the function of the speakers are different (centre for speech/vocals, fronts for details + music), but another group is saying it matters esp the tweeters because of the need to achieve the same tone at highs? And the woofer for mid-tones?

I have read up and it seems like it does matter to some extent, but just not sure of how and how much..... can help explain on this part? Thanks!

Also, I would plan to match the center with the fronts.

Then get identically matching 5 speakers since 5.1 music matters a lot to you.

 

[sevenz]

Thanks imcloud! Noticed that you are using a pre/power setup, and emotiva!

Do you recommend me to (i) add a 5-channel power amp or 2-channel amp and use my yammy as pre? ; (ii) or do u think aligning my front 3 speakers to have the same tweeters and woofers can reap more benefits?

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks for the inputs zieg and jm78! Can you help me better understand more on the theory having matching centre and fronts? And how important in a 5.1 setup

Cos I have heard 2 sides of the coin so I'm confused.... haha... One group believes that it doesnt quite matter as the function of the speakers are different (centre for speech/vocals, fronts for details + music), but another group is saying it matters esp the tweeters because of the need to achieve the same tone at highs? And the woofer for mid-tones?

I have read up and it seems like it does matter to some extent, but just not sure of how and how much..... can help explain on this part? Thanks!

You did not say where you are from - are you from Singapore?

Also, are you restricted to bookshelves due to wife preference?

Your Yamaha is 130 watts per channel.

Timbre matching plays an important part for music, and the
front 3 channels are real important for movies and TV.

Read this from Bluray forum for some insight.
Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - Timbre Matching?

 

[ratm]

I'll never get the whole "i need a fast speaker" thing

 

[sevenz]

Yes to first 2 questions!

I noticed you are also using S30 too, so I guess you are quite familiar with the S30 sound. To be frank, I really love the S30 sound, but would love the vocals (from my fronts) to be bigger and fuller (also due to the size of my rm) in my 5.1 concerts, though the sound staging of S30 is quite good for its size. Do u know of any speaker that has a similar sound to S30 but bigger sounding?

You did not say where you are from - are you from Singapore? Also, are you restricted to bookshelves due to wife preference?

Timbre matching plays an important part for music, and the
front 3 channels are real important for movies and TV.

 

[shadyJ]

I'll never get the whole "i need a fast speaker" thing

Fast speakers are good for those of us with a busy schedule. For instance I enjoy Wagner's Ring Cycle, but who has time for the whole 15 hour performance? The cheap speakers I used to own were so slow it could actually twice that long for me to finish the recording, and it didn't even sound quite right because everything was an octave lower than intended. When I upgraded to my present speakers with ribbon tweeters, I can now listen to the entire performance in just over seven hours, and, as an added bonus, the pitch shift from the speed increase adds an uplifting levity to Wagner's otherwise dreary saga which I find quite pleasant.

 

[zieglj01]

Yes to first 2 questions!

I noticed you are also using S30 too, so I guess you are quite familiar with the S30 sound. To be frank, I really love the S30 sound, but would love the vocals (from my fronts) to be bigger and fuller (also due to the size of my rm) in my 5.1 concerts, though the sound staging of S30 is quite good for its size. Do u know of any speaker that has a similar sound to S30 but bigger sounding?

Look at some bigger, Mordaunt Short bookshelf speakers and center.
like the Aviano-2 series.
http://www.mordaunt-short.com/products/aviano-2

 

[ImcLoud]

Thanks imcloud! Noticed that you are using a pre/power setup, and emotiva!

Do you recommend me to (i) add a 5-channel power amp or 2-channel amp and use my yammy as pre? ; (ii) or do u think aligning my front 3 speakers to have the same tweeters and woofers can reap more benefits?

I would have them all matching if I were you, then air them out with more power after, with 5 channel music its important to have all the same speakers all the way around... Something, defined, warm easy to power that isnt huge...

 

[j_garcia]

Do you recommend me to (i) add a 5-channel power amp or 2-channel amp and use my yammy as pre? ; (ii) or do u think aligning my front 3 speakers to have the same tweeters and woofers can reap more benefits?

Matching speakers will make a bigger difference. You won't know if you need an amp until you see how it does without it.

 

[GranteedEV]

Yes to first 2 questions!

I noticed you are also using S30 too, so I guess you are quite familiar with the S30 sound. To be frank, I really love the S30 sound, but would love the vocals (from my fronts) to be bigger and fuller (also due to the size of my rm) in my 5.1 concerts, though the sound staging of S30 is quite good for its size. Do u know of any speaker that has a similar sound to S30 but bigger sounding?

His S30s I believe are modified to have a more balanced midrange. It should bring the lower mids and bass forward by around 4-6db which might be just what you want out of those speakers. Hopefully Dennis still has the schematic lying around.

 

[sevenz]

Thanks zieg! Looking through the reviews online now. Hope I can get my hands on a used set to audition it with my amp. Correct me if I'm wrong, so this speaker has the roughly the same 'sounding' as S30?

I also realized that there is a CA SL30. Not sure if it is worth considering as compared to the MS aviano 2?

Look at some bigger, Mordaunt Short bookshelf speakers and center.
like the Aviano-2 series.

 

[sevenz]

Garcia, thanks! So actually, am I right to say that the more logical and 'best performance for buck' solution will be to:
(i) sell my current front speakers including the B&Ws (B&Ws should be able to fetch more monies).
(ii) use the monies to buy a bigger (not so huge) but easy to drive bookshelf,
(iii) and if I have remaining monies, can use to get a 2-channel used amp?

Matching speakers will make a bigger difference. You won't know if you need an amp until you see how it does without it.

 

[sevenz]

imcloud, yes agree with you too. hehehe... that's what I want too. Warm, full but defined and crisp. Any recommendations? My ears are wide open! hahaha

Something, defined, warm easy to power that isnt huge...

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks zieg! Looking through the reviews online now. Hope I can get my hands on a used set to audition it with my amp. Correct me if I'm wrong, so this speaker has the roughly the same 'sounding' as S30?

I also realized that there is a CA SL30. Not sure if it is worth considering as compared to the MS aviano 2?

Mordaunt Short and Cambridge Audio, are from the same ownership.
http://www.audiopartnership.com/product-development.php

The products can have a somewhat similar sound, however the products
can have a different tonal character, with better resolution. > There are
different drivers, with a different crossover in the Aviano 2.

The SL30 is mainly a newer tweeter and a more fancy looking cabinet.
It is pretty much the same size and a first order crossover design.
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=343

Other than the SL30 >> the speaker that would be closer to the S30
and somewhat bigger, is the Mordaunt Short Carnival 2
http://www.wildwestelectronics.net/carnival-2-bookshelf-speakers.html

 

[sevenz]

Thanks for the advice zieg! But between the aviano 2 and the carnival 2, I shld go for the aviano 2 right?

Mordaunt Short and Cambridge Audio, are from the same ownership.
Audio Partnership - Product Development

The products can have a somewhat similar sound, however the products
can have a different tonal character, with better resolution. > There are
different drivers, with a different crossover in the Aviano 2.

 

[sevenz]

By the way, Monitor Audio BX2 or RX2 is quite popular over here, may see some used sets now and then. Do they come close to the sounding of the S30 as compared to MS?