Reciever Vs. Seperates. Any direct comparisons?

[rolyasm]

I am curious how many people have done side-by-side comparisons between a descent reciever and seperates? How many of gone from seperates to a receiver and been just as happy? How many have gone the opposite, from a receiver to seperates and think they where on cloud nine? I would make this a poll, if I knew how, but all responses are appreciated. I think that part of the problem is that when you go out and spend twice as much, or more, on seperates, you almost feel that it has to sound better. Kind of like when I get my oil changed and I think my car is faster, or buy new shoes and think I can run faster or jump higher. I am mostly looking for responses from people who have actually done comparisons, hopefully side-by-side.
Thanks
Roly

 

[ht_addict]

I am curious how many people have done side-by-side comparisons between a descent reciever and seperates? How many of gone from seperates to a receiver and been just as happy? How many have gone the opposite, from a receiver to seperates and think they where on cloud nine? I would make this a poll, if I knew how, but all responses are appreciated. I think that part of the problem is that when you go out and spend twice as much, or more, on seperates, you almost feel that it has to sound better. Kind of like when I get my oil changed and I think my car is faster, or buy new shoes and think I can run faster or jump higher. I am mostly looking for responses from people who have actually done comparisons, hopefully side-by-side.
Thanks
Roly

The only way you could do a true side by side is with a receiver and seperates that are made off the same components from the same manufacturer. Doing a side by side off say a Denon 4806 and Anthem/amp combo, your comparing components made of different internals and then it boils down to which sound from which manufacturer you like.

 

[AdrianMills]

I am curious how many people have done side-by-side comparisons between a descent reciever and seperates? How many of gone from seperates to a receiver and been just as happy? How many have gone the opposite, from a receiver to seperates and think they where on cloud nine? I would make this a poll, if I knew how, but all responses are appreciated. I think that part of the problem is that when you go out and spend twice as much, or more, on seperates, you almost feel that it has to sound better. Kind of like when I get my oil changed and I think my car is faster, or buy new shoes and think I can run faster or jump higher. I am mostly looking for responses from people who have actually done comparisons, hopefully side-by-side.
Thanks
Roly

A guy call Steve Callas over on AVS forums has done a few small scale blind tests on amps and processors and he asserts that there is little/no audible difference in most if not all modern day electronics; I tend to agree with him. My guess is that if there is an audible difference it is extremely small and is usually overwhelmed by most speaker and room acoustics.

You can see a rant of his here. Take a look at his signature and you'll find links to his tests - the processor test is the most relevant to your query.

 

[mtrycrafts]

A guy call Steve Callas over on AVS forums has done a few small scale blind tests on amps and processors and he asserts that there is little/no audible difference in most if not all modern day electronics;
.

You are in luck then
You have powerful evidence in your favor:

David Rich and Peter Aczel, 'Topological Analysis of Consumer Audio Electronics: Another Approach to Show that Modern Audio Electronics are Acoustically Transparent,' 99 AES Convention, 1995, Print #4053.

 

[PENG]

I compared mine side by side, insignificant difference if any. I don't consider my speakers are good enough to be conclusive and I do believe if I push them hard with loud music especially materials with high dynamic/transients, the separates would win.

 

[rolyasm]

Thanks for the replies so far. It is interesting that more people have not done comparisons. I guess it would be a lot of work. I would have thought at few more that had made the jump to seperates would have an old receiver and tried it out, just for fun. Another interesting point I am finding is that based on tech. specs alone, a lot of the receivers are rated very closely to the low to mid-range seperates. I haven't compared them to higher end pres, because I don't have that much money.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Another interesting point I am finding is that based on tech. specs alone, a lot of the receivers are rated very closely to the low to mid-range seperates. I haven't compared them to higher end pres, because I don't have that much money.

There you go. As long as you don't exceed the design limits of either component, why would they be different?
Rich indicates they are not.

 

[mulester7]

There you go. As long as you don't exceed the design limits of either component, why would they be different?
Rich indicates they are not.

.....well, good for ole' Rich, Mtry....if they all sounded the same, why would there be so many different companies?....you really need to quit reading so much and try some stuff out......

 

[VicAjax]

A guy call Steve Callas over on AVS forums has done a few small scale blind tests on amps and processors and he asserts that there is little/no audible difference in most if not all modern day electronics; I tend to agree with him. My guess is that if there is an audible difference it is extremely small and is usually overwhelmed by most speaker and room acoustics.

You can see a rant of his here. Take a look at his signature and you'll find links to his tests - the processor test is the most relevant to your query.

i remember another thread at AVS forum by a guy who compared a Panasonic PCM/PWM receiver (the XR55, i think) with his separates, either NAD or Rotel, and ditched the separates in favor of the Panny... to power his B&W 800D, no less.

 

[ironlung]

I thought your car DID have more power after an oil change.



huh...live and learn

 

[goodman]

Although I am very curious myself, I have never done such a-b testing. I would also like to experiment with using a separate amp from the pre-outs of my Denon AVR-5803 receiver. If there is an amplifier company that is confident that their amp will produce an audible improvement, send me your product on approval. If I can hear the difference, I will buy it for its usual selling price up to $5,000.00.

 

[Ryan_Lilly]

I think it comes down to a few factors, Physical size, expandability, and preference.

Size For many people is a factor because of physical location and simply how it looks.

Receivers are generally easy to configure and use, and it just doesn’t make sense to pack a whole rack of amps and crossovers etc. into a small apartment or home theatre.
Receivers are somewhat limited by their size, for large systems it may not be possible to pack everything that people with separate components have into a small attractive package.

Separate units give you the option of swapping different components easily and having complete customization but probably end up costing more and complicate things with more connections and cables. For people who like to try new equipment and expand to the next best thing, Separate units are the way to go. Build new speakers that need more power? Separates make it easy to swap just the amp.

You can probably get great results with no noticeable difference from either…to a point.

This point is if you need for more power exceeds the limits of your receiver. You just can’t pack 5-7 300watt amps into a small case.

Realistically most people will not run into this problem.

I think the main benefit to separate units is when you use active crossovers and bi-amp or tri-amp your speakers.

Unless you need large amounts of power or you are, or eventually want to bi/tri-amp, then you can get great results and equal quality from either separates or a receiver. It just comes down to your needs and wants.

 

[biz97]

i remember another thread at AVS forum by a guy who compared a Panasonic PCM/PWM receiver (the XR55, i think) with his separates, either NAD or Rotel, and ditched the separates in favor of the Panny... to power his B&W 800D, no less.

Wow that is a big change I love my XR57 though.

 

[VicAjax]

Wow that is a big change I love my XR57 though.

i'm tempted to pick one up myself, but as i'm about to migrate from surround back to 2-channel, i think i may instead go with a safer bet... perhaps a Music Hall 25.2 integrated.

 

[biz97]

i'm tempted to pick one up myself, but as i'm about to migrate from surround back to 2-channel, i think i may instead go with a safer bet... perhaps a Music Hall 25.2 integrated.

Well you may still want to consider the XR 57. I use one for my 2 channel setup and I think it's great. I guess it depends on your source but I've paired mine up directly with my PC and with a squeezebox and had great results. I used it with the Emma bokshelfs for an outstanding value small size setup. I like it so much I might buy another for the bedroom.

 

[mnnc]

I am curious how many people have done side-by-side comparisons between a descent reciever and seperates? How many of gone from seperates to a receiver and been just as happy? How many have gone the opposite, from a receiver to seperates and think they where on cloud nine? I would make this a poll, if I knew how, but all responses are appreciated. I think that part of the problem is that when you go out and spend twice as much, or more, on seperates, you almost feel that it has to sound better. Kind of like when I get my oil changed and I think my car is faster, or buy new shoes and think I can run faster or jump higher. I am mostly looking for responses from people who have actually done comparisons, hopefully side-by-side.
Thanks
Roly

If it sounds good to you. You. Buy it and be happy. Does it do what you want it to do and sound good?...buy it and be happy. It's up to you. Not whether or not others think seperates are better than integrated or recvr's. Technically very little diff if truth be known. Save money and buy a do-it-all unit.

 

[VicAjax]

Well you may still want to consider the XR 57. I use one for my 2 channel setup and I think it's great. I guess it depends on your source but I've paired mine up directly with my PC and with a squeezebox and had great results. I used it with the Emma bokshelfs for an outstanding value small size setup. I like it so much I might buy another for the bedroom.

yeah, i can actually get it at a pretty good discount through an employee purchase program at work, so we'll see. i'm starting with small floorstanders, then amp, then source.

 

[BigGuy]

I was using a Denon 3805 for quite some time and then tried out a Rotel 1077 (the 7 channel digital amp). I used the 3805 as a preamp. I did notice a "different" sound compared to the Denon. The most concrete difference that I can say was that using the 3805's internal amp caused listening fatigue at higher listening levels. I didn't want to turn it up to much because I didn't enjoy the sound at higher volumes. I enjoyed the Rotel a lot at higher volumes, no fatigue. Then I tried out a Bryston 9BSST and noticed a change in the sound as well, I liked the Highs of the Bryston a lot more then the Rotel but the Rotel had very impressive low end. I preferred the Bryston sound to the Rotel, so stuck with the bryston. A few months later I upgraded the Denon 3805 to a Bryston SP1.7 and noticed a small improvement in sound, about 5-10% i'd say, whereas the Amp seemed to give more like a 30-40% improvement in sound. I've read a lot about how amps shouldn't sound different, ect.... from my experience, I perceived them to sound different. My Wife also agreed with my observations on the better sound from the external amp, but couldn't really hear a difference upgrading to the Bryston Pre\Pro. It's very hard to do a A/B test, takes to long to switch all the equipment to remember exactly how it sounds, But If I were to recommend separates vs. receiver, i'd say go with a good receiver, Yamaha or Denon, and then if you get the upgrade bug, try out a few external amps later on down the road that have a good return policy, so you can decide if you like the sound better yourself. I think the yamaha or denon make great pre\pros for their price point, vs units like the Bryston.

Brian

 

[billnchristy]

I really think instead of a "sound" difference you would certainly have a dynamic difference and a headroom difference.

In a way it is like asking will the stereo in my car be enough or should I get an amp? Well we all know the answer to that.

There is a reason a seperate 200w / channel amp weighs more than a reciever that has "110x7" plus all the in/out and processing...

 

[PENG]

I was using a Denon 3805 for quite some time and then tried out a Rotel 1077 (the 7 channel digital amp). I used the 3805 as a preamp. I did notice a "different" compared to the Denon. The most concrete difference that I can say was that using the 3805's internal amp caused listening fatigue at higher listening levels. I didn't want to turn it up to much because I didn't enjoy the sound at higher volumes. I enjoyed the Rotel a lot at higher volumes, no fatigue. Then I tried out a Bryston 9BSST and noticed a change in the sound as well, I liked the Highs of the Bryston a lot more then the Rotel but the Rotel had very impressive low end. I preferred the Bryston sound to the Rotel, so stuck with the bryston. A few months later I upgraded the Denon 3805 to a Bryston SP1.7 and noticed a small improvement in sound, about 5-10% i'd say, whereas the Amp seemed to give more like a 30-40% improvement in sound. I've read a lot about how amps shouldn't sound different, ect.... from my experience, I perceived them to sound different. My Wife also agreed with my observations on the better sound from the external amp, but couldn't really hear a difference upgrading to the Bryston Pre\Pro. It's very hard to do a A/B test, takes to long to switch all the equipment to remember exactly how it sounds, But If I were to recommend separates vs. receiver, i'd say go with a good receiver, Yamaha or Denon, and then if you get the upgrade bug, try out a few external amps later on down the road that have a good return policy, so you can decide if you like the sound better yourself. I think the yamaha or denon make great pre\pros for their price point, vs units like the Bryston.

Brian

Most of the time people reported hearing much more difference between amps/preamps. For me, it is hard to put a % on it, or say for sure that it would pass a blind test, but at least I perceived more difference between my two power amps and the 3805. For whatever reasons, I could not say I heard a difference between using my preamp versue the 3805 as a pre/pro no matter how hard I tried. Others claimed that preamps makes the most difference in wound quality. That's why I convinced myself long ago that people hear things differently. Still, it is a matter of time before I try out a higher end preamp before I quit. It is discouraging to hear that even a SP1.7 cannot do the trick though. I am not sure the preamp that I am thinking of is any better than the SP1.7.