Rear/Surround speakers

[ankurdesai]

I am building a new system, with a budget of around $2500 for speakers / receiver. Primary use is HT-- not much music.

I've decided to spend around 80% of my budget on speakers, or around $2000. (I'm going to spend the other $500 on a refurbed Denon 2113CI from a4l.) The room is kind of an open space, but the viewing / listening area is about 12X14. The sofa will be about 2 feet from the rear wall.

I've basically decided on the following speakers:
- PSB Image T6 x2 (b-stock)
- PSB Image C5 (b-stock)
- HSU STF-2

That would leave around $300 for the rear/surrounds. So here are my questions:

1. At the moment, I'm spending about 68% of my budget on F/C, 18% on the sub, and the last 14% on the rear/surround. Does that seem like a decent allocation?

2. I think any rear/surrounds I get will need to be ceiling mounted and pointed downward. Any suggestions on good, small options? (At first, I wanted to get the PSB Alpha B1s, but at a height of 12" I fear they are too large for ceiling mounts.) I would also be happy with in-ceiling options, but I don't know what exactly to get-- are the in-ceiling PSBs a good option? They are a bit on the pricey side.

3. Is it better to get 4 $75 speakers for the rear/surround and rock a 7.1 system, or should I just get 2 $150 speakers and be happy with a 5.1 system? I know there will be some advice saying "just get 2 nice ones, and then save up and get two more nice ones later," but I doubt that will work for me. We're getting stuff installed professionally, so I'd like to have it all installed at once rather than incur the additional expense of having a separate installation of a couple more speakers in the future. So: if you had to live with your decision for some time, which would you prefer? My inclination is to go with a 7.1, since the receiver supports it, but that may be a silly thing to do.

Thanks for your help!

 

[j_garcia]

I think that sub is a good choice in general, but not if you have a large room. Listening area does not matter, the entire space that is open to the sub does. You can sort of mitigate that somewhat by locating the sub closer to the listening position (behind the couch), but I'd allocate more to the sub and a little less to the surrounds, since it will be more of a benefit in the long run.

For surrounds, I think in ceiling work just fine.

I'd personally go with a 5.1 system now with better speakers. In terms of installation, you CAN have them run the wires for 7.1 even if you don't add the additional speakers. The difference between 7.1 and 5.1 doesn't entirely justify the additional expense in most cases IMO. I don't think 7.1 is pointless, but it also isn't 100% necessary.

 

[ankurdesai]

Thank you for your reply. What surrounds would you recommend with that system?

I don't think I have anywhere to put a second sub-- should I just go with the HSU VTF2 MK4?

 

[agarwalro]

I've decided to spend around 80% of my budget on speakers, or around $2000. (I'm going to spend the other $500 on a refurbed Denon 2113CI from a4l.) The room is kind of an open space, but the viewing / listening area is about 12X14. The sofa will be about 2 feet from the rear wall.

I've basically decided on the following speakers:
- PSB Image T6 x2 (b-stock)
- PSB Image C5 (b-stock)
- HSU STF-2

Welcome to the forum and good call on the budget! And the T6 is a very good measuring speaker (that I have not personally heard).

IMO, get the Denon 3312 new open box from Amazon for $565. Looking at the measurements in the Stereophile review of the T6, they are power hungry beasts

and the 3312 amp section is much better than the 2113. The features in the 3312 are marginally better too, so, win win.

The surrounds don't add that much (my subjective assessment) to the soundtrack and since very few movies truly push the envelope with those channels, you can leave them out completely, for now . Even then, since you are 2ft. to the back wall, you'll be getting a lot of front sounds reflected from that wall (look into acoustical treatments for the side and back walls). It is recommended, for best possible room acoustics, to have the listening position be 38% from the front or back wall. Further, because of your proximity to the back wall, there is not going to be enough room to properly place the rear surrounds, unless you can move the couch about 5-6ft away from the back wall (which just happens to be in the 38% territory for the 14ft length). Another thing to remember is that the surrounds don't need to be from the same brand/series the fronts as long as they can keep up.

On the subject of sub, IMO, don't skimp here. Don't go lower than the
VTF-2 MK2. If you must, run 2.0 for now and build up the sub budget?

IMHO, your speaker acquisition path should be, T6, VTF2, second VTF2, surrounds, C5.

 

[j_garcia]

I'd stick with the PSBs for a good match with the other speakers you've already chosen. It is less critical to match surrounds since you are doing less music, but I'd still say the PSB in ceilings would be a good choice.

*I will disagree that surrounds don't add much, because they certainly do, but I agree that the vast majority of audio is coming from the rest of the speakers.

Do you have an idea of how much open space there is? The VTF-2 would be a definite improvement over the STF-2 for filling a larger space, and is definitely a good choice.

 

[3db]

If you aren't limited to ceiling only, you can pick up these mounys and mount them to the walls:

AM-40 - Pinpoint mounts.

Here's a pic of my surround system based on the PSB Image series using the mounts in the link.

 

[ankurdesai]

Great advice-- thanks for the tip on the 3312!

 

[ankurdesai]

Do you have an idea of how much open space there is? The VTF-2 would be a definite improvement over the STF-2 for filling a larger space, and is definitely a good choice.

Well, really, there's quite a bit. This isn't a dedicated media room -- it's our living room, and there are no doors at all downstairs, or even all the way to the upstairs ceiling. I would guess we're talking about maybe 1500 square feet and as much as 30000 cubic feet. That said, the viewing area is much, much smaller than that: as I said before, it's probably around 2000 cubic feet.

 

[ankurdesai]

I'd stick with the PSBs for a good match with the other speakers you've already chosen. It is less critical to match surrounds since you are doing less music, but I'd still say the PSB in ceilings would be a good choice.

Any thought on which PSBs? They have a bunch to choose from. They seem to be divided on the basis of shape, which seems kind of odd to me.

I am not wedded to in-ceiling by any means-- if there is a good mountable speaker that can serve the purpose, I am fine with that. I do think that, based on the aesthetics of our room, smaller will be better.

 

[j_garcia]

For the in ceiling, I'd go with the round ones since you are having them pro-installed: the SW60; it should save you a bit compared to the rectangular ones. If you wanted to drop the cost some, the SW160. For me, personally, I prefer round in ceiling and rectangular in wall.

If you really don't mind mounting, the Image B4 or the Image S5. The S5 is intended to be wall mounted.

 

[ankurdesai]

Don't mind wall mounting, but the S5 (at around $800/pair) is probably outside of my range. But I have heard that in-wall speakers are much worse than cabinets.

My initial instinct was to grab 4 Pioneer BS-21 for the rears and surrounds-- Total would be around $300. I suppose I could go with 2 PSB Image B4s for around the same price.

So, OK, let's say these are the 3 options:

1. 4 Pioneer BS-21 (mounted)
2. 2 PSB Image B4 (mounted)
3. 2 PSB CW60R (in ceiling)

How would you guys vote?

Thanks for all the help-- our house should probably close this week, at which point the wife will loosen her grip on the credit card...

 

[slipperybidness]

Option #2 is my vote

 

[j_garcia]

#2 would also be my vote.

 

[hizzaah]

#2.. Those B4's are beautiful speakers

 

[zieglj01]

Don't mind wall mounting, but the S5 (at around $800/pair) is probably outside of my range. But I have heard that in-wall speakers are much worse than cabinets.

My initial instinct was to grab 4 Pioneer BS-21 for the rears and surrounds-- Total would be around $300. I suppose I could go with 2 PSB Image B4s for around the same price.

So, OK, let's say these are the 3 options:

1. 4 Pioneer BS-21 (mounted)
2. 2 PSB Image B4 (mounted)
3. 2 PSB CW60R (in ceiling)

How would you guys vote?

Not much for voting - however, #2

Some PSB speakers here
https://dmc-electronics.com/Main.asp

 

[ankurdesai]

Option 2 it is

Thanks to all for the help!

 

[3db]

Thanks to all for the help!

Great choice. I have the older Image B4 as my surrounds as you can see.

 

[ankurdesai]

next decision

How to wire this thing? I'm wall-mounting the TV and the center, ceiling mounting the surrounds, and the towers are obviously going to be on the floor. Where should I put my receiver/cable box/DVD player/AppleTV/Wireless router?

Room isn't that huge, so sticking it in a corner would likely be best-- what kind of remote do I need if I want them out of the way (i.e., behind the sofa)?

 

[j_garcia]

An RF capable remote or an IR repeater.