Question

[tmurnin]

I have been looking at upgrading my main listening room fronts and am currently looking at either the Dynaudio Excite X16 (~$1400/pr) or the Focus 160's (~$2800/pr). I am using a Denon 3312ci as my receiver currently driving some DefTech ProMonitor speakers, so I am looking at a big upgrade. While I like the sound from both speakers, I love what I hear from the Focus. However, the rep at the store is advising me to go with the Excites - "unless you're planning on a significant upgrade to your AVR or going to high-end separates soon." When I said I was considering adding a 3-channel amp to the Denon, he said that wouldn't do that - he would upgrade to a NAD 787 or a similar AVR from Arcam or something similar.

Not sure how this makes sense. While I'm always appreciative of a dealer who advises me to spend 1/2 the money I'm willing to spend, I'm not sure I understand the point about 1) needing to upgrade the electronics at all and 2) why just adding a good (thinking of the Emotiva 3-channel amp) separate amp wouldn't cover any concern here. Any ideas or is he just trying to get me to buy the cheaper speakers and a new AVR? My philosophy has always been to buy the best possible speakers up front and catch up with the electronics later, but I'm not big on the idea of spending $3k on an AVR at any time at all. I would consider the $800 for the Emo amp if that would actually make a difference.

Finally, if anyone has any experience with these speakers themselves, I'd love to hear your thoughts as well.

 

[anamorphic96]

The dealer is just looking for a bigger sale. I would stick with what your thinking and go with an Emotiva amp and use the Denon as a pre/pro. The Focus 160's are worth it though.

 

[tmurnin]

But you do think I will need an outboard amp to drive the Dyn's rather than the existing avr?

 

[ski2xblack]

But you do think I will need an outboard amp to drive the Dyn's rather than the existing avr?

Maybe. Probably not. But if so, then you may want to reassess the Dynaudios. All I'm saying is that if your room, listening distance, and spl desires necessitate more power, you then need to consider power handling limits of your speakers and the inherent limits of the "brute force" approach (distortion increases faster than spl as you approach your speaker's limits). Dynaudios are not the most sensitive speakers out there.

The only Dynaudios I've heard recently were the Contours, which I felt sounded very nice. A bit less impact in the mid bass and lower midrange than I like, but otherwise very nice.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So typical of most dealers - always trying to make a few extra bucks and screwing over customers.

Only a few dealers are truly honest and want to actually save you some money. I personally know one.

The Denon 3312 is great either as an AVR or pre-pro. You could add an amp if you like for the front 2 channels (like a $280 Crown XLS 1000 amp) and let the AVR drive the other speakers. But the 3312 has a good amp inside it (unless it is somehow defective).

 

[sgtjim]

I went to a local dealer in the mind to purchase the Denon X4000. After showing me this AVR, they informed me I could get a better deal on a Marantz Pre Pro since it cost more money to begin with. I walked out with the X4000. I knew what I wanted and purchased it.

 

[tmurnin]

Thanks for the advice. If I do decide to go with another amp, will I need at least a 3 channel, or could I go with a 2 channel and let the receiver handle the center and surrounds?

 

[ski2xblack]

Either way would relieve your AVR a bit, but wait until the need for more power is determined. If you don't actually require it and would never use it, there is no sense in spending money on it. As mentioned, your Denon has amps that are sufficient for all but the most extreme cases. Give it a chance first.

 

[anamorphic96]

But you do think I will need an outboard amp to drive the Dyn's rather than the existing avr?

If you go with the Focus series I would get an outboard amp, especially if you turn it up or your room is on the large size. The Excite series from my understanding is a good bit easier to drive.

 

[tmurnin]

Thanks. Appreciate all the help on the amp question. Anyone have experience with these speakers live? Are the Focus worth the 2x price difference over the Excite?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for the advice. If I do decide to go with another amp, will I need at least a 3 channel, or could I go with a 2 channel and let the receiver handle the center and surrounds?

I think a 2CH amp like a $280 Crown XLS1000 will do..... if you feel the need.

The Center channel is usually for discrete dialogue, so most loud explosion will be in the front 2Ch & subs. Thus, Center & Surrounds usually won't need much power.

 

[English210]

I still believe the quality of the amp makes a difference. I don't mean name, but the build quality and 'oomph' behind the Watt Per Channel rating. My outboard 150wpc amp improved the sound of my inefficient main speakers by a large margin. I compared my old outboard amp to the new receiver I got, and didn't hear a difference. I tried a different outboard amp with higher current, and it was a huge difference. At higher volumes, the sound doesn't get as congested and harsh as it used to. Consequently, I don't agree with those who say a receiver will give you everything an outboard amp can. It may give you most, and it may be fine at lower volumes, but I do believe you can extract more from speakers with better quality amps. I do NOT mean you spend stupid money, though. I spent $700 on a good used amp. My speakers are old and inefficient (87-88db/m iirc??)