Question about 5.1 receivers

[spwelton]

Well, I got my PE BR-1 speaker kits put together on my RCA 5.1 system, and man they sound good, way better than the crap RCA gives you! My question is this: My RCA receiver does not allow me to adjust the crossover frequency between the mains and sub, and I lose the nice bass from the BR-1 kit. On nicer receivers would I be able to bypass this for stereo listening? If not, what would be the point of towers, etc... on a 5.1 system when it won't play any bass through them?

Thanks

 

[Pyrrho]

Well, I got my PE BR-1 speaker kits put together on my RCA 5.1 system, and man they sound good, way better than the crap RCA gives you! My question is this: My RCA receiver does not allow me to adjust the crossover frequency between the mains and sub, and I lose the nice bass from the BR-1 kit. On nicer receivers would I be able to bypass this for stereo listening? If not, what would be the point of towers, etc... on a 5.1 system when it won't play any bass through them?

Thanks

On many receivers, you can set the main speakers to "large", which bypasses the internal crossover and sends all of the signal to the main speakers. You will want to check the manual of your current receiver to see if you can do that, if you want. However, if you have a good subwoofer, and you have your system properly set up, the subwoofer will probably be capable of deeper bass, so you will lose some bass by setting the main speakers to "large".

In most cases, people are better off not buying towers for their home theaters, and instead buying better "bookshelf" speakers, since they will be having a subwoofer handle the bass anyway. Of course, this is assuming that people will properly set up their systems, and many people willfully set up their systems improperly, by overemphasizing the bass.

 

[JCW]

I have a Sony 5.1 (105 watts/ch) in one room and it runs full range (plus the sub out), but oddly the tone controls only work on the front speakers. Even though I have larger speakers on all outputs, you cannot balance the tone and presence of the front and rear speakers since tone controls only work on the front speakers.

The rear speakers seem really flat and bland and need some warming up....but it's not possible. I'm back to separate components, a nice big power amp, stereo L & R (2 channel) plus a powered sub for my main system and it is really nice. If I try 5.1 again, I'll get a 5.1 preamp and use 2 good amps.

Good luck getting yours dialed in to your taste.

 

[spwelton]

On many receivers, you can set the main speakers to "large", which bypasses the internal crossover and sends all of the signal to the main speakers. You will want to check the manual of your current receiver to see if you can do that, if you want. However, if you have a good subwoofer, and you have your system properly set up, the subwoofer will probably be capable of deeper bass, so you will lose some bass by setting the main speakers to "large".

In most cases, people are better off not buying towers for their home theaters, and instead buying better "bookshelf" speakers, since they will be having a subwoofer handle the bass anyway. Of course, this is assuming that people will properly set up their systems, and many people willfully set up their systems improperly, by overemphasizing the bass.

Does setting the speakers to "large" turn off the sub? I looked and my crappy receiver doesn't have that option. Its one of those HTIB receivers where they take the power measurements at 10% THD... I bought it before I had any experience in audio or electronics. I'm looking for replacements currently. What might I expect to get on a college budget?

 

[Pyrrho]

Does setting the speakers to "large" turn off the sub? I looked and my crappy receiver doesn't have that option. Its one of those HTIB receivers where they take the power measurements at 10% THD... I bought it before I had any experience in audio or electronics. I'm looking for replacements currently. What might I expect to get on a college budget?

Normally, setting all of the main speakers to "large" does not shut off the subwoofer, but it does direct the bass of the main channels to the main speakers only, so that only the bass from the ".1" channel goes to the subwoofer. Some receivers allow sending the bass to both the subwoofer and the main speakers, and that might be the "best" option if one wants extra bass, but it is pretty much never going to give a proper flat bass response that way.

Without knowing more about your current receiver, it is hard to advise you regarding it. In most cases, if one wants an improvement in sound, one should either buy better speakers or improve the acoustics of the room (or both). From what you say, there is a good chance you could improve the sound with a new receiver, but it is very likely that, at low volume levels, there will be minimal or no improvement in the sound. Those 10% THD ratings of which you speak are at the rated power, not at lower power levels. Even with your receiver, most of the distortion will probably come from the speakers (they don't normally give you distortion figures for speakers, because they are so bad that people would be shocked by them).

If you provided a link to download the manual for your particular receiver, I would probably be willing to look at it and give you advice about it in particular. Probably, getting a good subwoofer would be a better investment than replacing the receiver, if sound quality is paramount.

Also, you have not yet said, did you replace all of the main speakers, or just some of them (like just the right and left front)? If you have not yet replaced the other speakers (especially the center front), you would probably be better off doing that before replacing the receiver.

Really, your receiver would have to be an amazingly bad thing to be worse than tolerable speakers, assuming that you are using the receiver within its design parameters (i.e., with appropriate impedance speakers, keeping the power below [in your case] rated output).

 

[spwelton]

Normally, setting all of the main speakers to "large" does not shut off the subwoofer, but it does direct the bass of the main channels to the main speakers only, so that only the bass from the ".1" channel goes to the subwoofer. Some receivers allow sending the bass to both the subwoofer and the main speakers, and that might be the "best" option if one wants extra bass, but it is pretty much never going to give a proper flat bass response that way.

Without knowing more about your current receiver, it is hard to advise you regarding it. In most cases, if one wants an improvement in sound, one should either buy better speakers or improve the acoustics of the room (or both). From what you say, there is a good chance you could improve the sound with a new receiver, but it is very likely that, at low volume levels, there will be minimal or no improvement in the sound. Those 10% THD ratings of which you speak are at the rated power, not at lower power levels. Even with your receiver, most of the distortion will probably come from the speakers (they don't normally give you distortion figures for speakers, because they are so bad that people would be shocked by them).

If you provided a link to download the manual for your particular receiver, I would probably be willing to look at it and give you advice about it in particular. Probably, getting a good subwoofer would be a better investment than replacing the receiver, if sound quality is paramount.

Also, you have not yet said, did you replace all of the main speakers, or just some of them (like just the right and left front)? If you have not yet replaced the other speakers (especially the center front), you would probably be better off doing that before replacing the receiver.

Really, your receiver would have to be an amazingly bad thing to be worse than tolerable speakers, assuming that you are using the receiver within its design parameters (i.e., with appropriate impedance speakers, keeping the power below [in your case] rated output).

Yeah, I figured those high THD numbers were at the "1000" watt power levels. This receiver does, in fact sound pretty good down low, but once you turn it up to louder levels, say for playing XBox, the distortion starts to creep in. I just had to replace those factory speakers though... they were the typical crappy cube speakers, next up is the center channel. So far my plan is (starting in May, when I graduate) new TV, then new center and left/right speakers, DIY sub, BR-1's moved to surrounds, and then a nice receiver.

 

[Pyrrho]

Yeah, I figured those high THD numbers were at the "1000" watt power levels. This receiver does, in fact sound pretty good down low, but once you turn it up to louder levels, say for playing XBox, the distortion starts to creep in. I just had to replace those factory speakers though... they were the typical crappy cube speakers, next up is the center channel. So far my plan is (starting in May, when I graduate) new TV, then new center and left/right speakers, DIY sub, BR-1's moved to surrounds, and then a nice receiver.

Speakers also tend to distort more when they are played louder, particularly when pushed near their limits. Has the distortion seemed to go down since replacing the right and left front speakers? To test this, you might want to shut off the center channel, because it is still the old cheap speaker.

 

[spwelton]

Speakers also tend to distort more when they are played louder, particularly when pushed near their limits. Has the distortion seemed to go down since replacing the right and left front speakers? To test this, you might want to shut off the center channel, because it is still the old cheap speaker.

The distortion definitely went down in these speakers, now the left/right channels can reach all the way down to the crossover without getting nasty. Plus the old cube speakers couldn't play up real high either, i tried a 18kHz tone and all I got were distorted high pitched sounds. The BR-1's seem to do much much better up there.

 

[Pyrrho]

The distortion definitely went down in these speakers, now the left/right channels can reach all the way down to the crossover without getting nasty. Plus the old cube speakers couldn't play up real high either, i tried a 18kHz tone and all I got were distorted high pitched sounds. The BR-1's seem to do much much better up there.

That fits with what I would expect. So you will be better off replacing the remaining speakers before bothering with the receiver. Who knows? You might even be happy with the receiver once you have decent speakers all around. Unless it is incompetently designed, it probably is capable of good sound at low power levels, and as long as you don't need more power (or more features), replacing the receiver would be a waste of money.

I used to have a system with a receiver that retailed for about $600 with speakers that retailed for well over $6000. It sounded great (as it should with such expensive speakers). I replaced the receiver with one that retails for about $1600 because I wanted more features. However, it sounds the same, unless I engage a feature that affects the sound that the old receiver didn't have. The new receiver is capable of putting out about twice the power of the old one, but my speakers are an easy impedance and of normal efficiency, so I did not need more power. The moral to the story is this: If you want good sound for your money, put it in your speakers.

This, by the way, is also reflected in specifications. It is easy to get an amplifier with practically perfect frequency response and distortion, but you cannot get a speaker that will match even a moderately priced receiver in these aspects. The reason to buy more expensive receivers (or separate power amps) are to get more power if the speakers require it, or more features. The sound quality is otherwise unlikely to be affected at all by a change in electronics. In your particular case, you might have a receiver that could be audibly improved, but I would not be surprised if it cannot be audibly improved upon when used within its limits (i.e., with speakers of an impedance within the limits of the amplifier's abilities, at a low power output level).