Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Big updates on PSAs website with the announcement of modest price increases and a new driver for their PowerX lineup based on the Eminence LAB15. Looking good Tom!
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Last night, I saw this thread...and spent the roughly five seconds required to find the website and start looking at the subs. Seemed reasonable to me, but in retrospect - thanks for wasting my time, Steve! :mad:

:D

Besides, I'll wait for you to buy one and report back if there are any production processes that will be changing soon. :)
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Nice looking upgrades. I hope he gets all the subs over to Ricci for testing :)
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Nice looking upgrades. I hope he gets all the subs over to Ricci for testing :)
Ditto; also makes me curious about how the XS30se compares with the Seaton SubM, which also uses a modified LAB15 driver. The number crunching I did indicates that the XS30se is really pushing those drivers about as hard as they can go (assuming the Xmech remains on the order of 22mm), so even with a nominally more powerful amplifier in the SubM's favor, there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for improvement with respect to output.
 
T

Tom V.

Audioholic
Nice looking upgrades. I hope he gets all the subs over to Ricci for testing :)
We have been talking with Josh a bit over the last few weeks about various topics including shipping a couple Power-X products to him in the near future.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
 
T

Tom V.

Audioholic
Ditto; also makes me curious about how the XS30se compares with the Seaton SubM, which also uses a modified LAB15 driver. The number crunching I did indicates that the XS30se is really pushing those drivers about as hard as they can go (assuming the Xmech remains on the order of 22mm), so even with a nominally more powerful amplifier in the SubM's favor, there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for improvement with respect to output.

Not trying to sound curt but driver xmax is one of the most over rated aspect of subwoofer(or speaker) engineering. The other point missed is that the bandwidth where the system is displacement limited will be very narrow compared to being voltage limited. In other words, the Submersive is the better subwoofer without *any* doubt. The Speaker Power amps are incredibly expensive but worth every penny in the right hands..:)

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Thanks for the input Tom. I agree in principle that xmax is hardly the only factor involved in defining subwoofer performance; however, given the data presented, I'm not sure this is an average case either. Generally speaking, displacement limitations come into play <40Hz, while over that mark, you tend to run into amplifier limitations. That doesn't seem to be the case with the XS30se. Since we know the specified xmech (NOT xmax) is 22mm as well as the Sd of the drivers, we can calculate theoretical displacement limited max output (normalized to 1m peak):

20Hz: 114.8dB
25Hz: 118.6dB
32Hz: 122.7dB
Avg: 119.3dB

40Hz: 126.8dB
50Hz: 130.7dB
63Hz: 134.7dB
Avg: 131.3dB

The XS30se's CEA2010 burst output is within a dB of both these figures, indicating that it is indeed pretty close to the mechanically limited displacement limits of the LAB15 platform up to 63Hz. While the SubM's much greater amplifier power might yield a useful output advantage above 63Hz, I think it's fair to say in the "meat and potatoes" range of 20Hz-63Hz, it probably won't. That's not to say that the SubM isn't worth the asking price as there are other factors that enter the equation when creating a world class subwoofer. However, from the data you've posted, the XS30se looks to present an impressive value.
 
Goat1

Goat1

Audioholic
Is there any pics showing the difference between the drivers besides the dust caps?
 
Goat1

Goat1

Audioholic
Thank you Phillip. The new driver does look nicer,not radically nicer tho. Not like SVS,Rythmik,Velodyne,JL,or even HSU's. Those drivers look hard core!
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Thank you Phillip. The new driver does look nicer,not radically nicer tho. Not like SVS,Rythmik,Velodyne,JL,or even HSU's. Those drivers look hard core!

I would not put the Hsu on the same level as some of the ones you mentioned...at least not he driver used in the 15H. After seeing picture's of it...it's NOT that imposing a unit...all credit must be given to Hsu and working some kind of magic.

Anyhow ...it's nice to see PSA going with the Eminence drivers...I think they use to make the drivers for Svs back in the early days when TV was at the helm....nice to see them reconnect. I look forward to seeing the data once JR tests these new units...I'm actually considering switching out the driver units on my XS30...:eek:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
T

Tom V.

Audioholic
I wouldn't assume lab15 = Submersive driver = Power-X driver. In fact I'd bet all three have differences each OEM would consider quite significant. I'm flattered the XS30se is in the same conversation as the Submersive...don't get me wrong..:) Before the end of the year I'm guessing we'll see full-on Josh testing on both which will be interesting.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Hi Tom,

No doubt that the drivers aren't the same at all; Mark has mentioned at least once or twice that practically none of the T/S parameters are the same as the stock LAB15 driver. At the same time, it's still a member of the family so to speak, sharing the same cone, surround, basket, etc. While it's fair to assume Mark has highly optimized the driver to his purposes, I don't think it's realistic to expect 30+mm of linear stroke (which you'd need to deliver significantly more clean output than the XS30se from 20Hz-63Hz). It's also worth pointing out that Mark himself has always stated that the drivers he's using are relatively modest as compared with visually impressive long throw units like the SVS Ultra 13 driver. Instead, the idea (as I'm sure you're familiar with) was to make good with massive amounts of Sd from a pair of inexpensive, albeit effective medium stroke units, and make use of a relatively high system sensitivity above 40Hz or so.

Of course I'll be happy to see both units get tested by Josh. There have been a lot of interesting claims made over the years, and it'll be nice to replace hyperbole and conjecture with facts. The question "how does the SubM compare to X" comes up every so often, and it's hard to give much of an answer as is.
 
B

Basshead81

Audioholic
Thank you Phillip. The new driver does look nicer,not radically nicer tho. Not like SVS,Rythmik,Velodyne,JL,or even HSU's. Those drivers look hard core!
Not sure what you are looking at but the Lab15 looks far superior then any HSU driver except the ULS. I would probably put it close the ds1510 Rythmik driver.
 
Goat1

Goat1

Audioholic
I really like the looks of the SVS PB12/13u and Velodyne drivers. I mean the magnet and everything not just the cone. JL's also..
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Not sure what you are looking at but the Lab15 looks far superior then any HSU driver except the ULS. I would probably put it close the ds1510 Rythmik driver.
Driver isn't everything either. Just because the Hsu driver in the VTF-15 doesn't look like much, doesn't mean it won't give you excellent performance in its cabinet. You don't always need big beefy drivers as long as the cabinet and alignment are optimized for the driver or vice versa. TLSguys reference towers would probably give most people's sub/sat setups a serious run for their money/drubbing and he has no subs.
 

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