Prepro advice

[BWguy]

I am using a Pioneer SC65 as a pre pro with a Rotel RMB 1095 amp and B&W 804D speakers. I listen to music 75% of the time. I am thinking of upgrading my Pioneer and am considering The Rotel 1572, Marantz 8801 or 7701, and Yamaha 5000. Anyone have experience with any of these? Would all of these be superior to the Pioneer? Any other models I should consider?

 

[fuzz092888]

I love my 8801 and would highly recommend it. Any specific questions about it?

 

[PENG]

I am using a Pioneer SC65 as a pre pro with a Rotel RMB 1095 amp and B&W 804D speakers. I listen to music 75% of the time. I am thinking of upgrading my Pioneer and am considering The Rotel 1572, Marantz 8801 or 7701, and Yamaha 5000. Anyone have experience with any of these? Would all of these be superior to the Pioneer? Any other models I should consider?

Superior in what sense? For sound quality, I would bet no. I went from Denon 4308 to AV7005 to AV8801, for music sound quality I noticed no gain but the AV7005 seemed to have more emphasized surround effect, the AV8801 has more up to date features but for pure sound quality I cannot say I can hear a difference. For REQ, Pioneer has MCACC advanced vs the Marantz Audyssey XT32, no idea which will work better in your room but in pure direct I doubt one will sound superior than the other. That doesn't mean you won't though as it depends on other factors including one's ability to hear subtle differences and/or how prone one is to Placebo effect.

I think you have a great set up as it is. For 75% music, I think (just my opinion obviously) you will gain much more in sound quality by going after high quality recordings, be it digital or analog. Or if you feel bass is lacking, you could consider a subwoofer upgrade. If you are after the Marantz features than go for one but keep in mind there could be major feature upgrades coming in the next D&M models.

 

[RichB]

I have an AV8801 and use Pure Direct.

Since I had to send it out for repair of a failed trigger and faulty power connection, I may try Yamaha next time.
The AV8801 can run hot (largely due to its video chip), I put a fan in back of mine.

The Yamaha is reported to be cool running.
The 5000 series has very good DACs and does measure better AV8801. It might even be cheaper...

For most, it comes down to room correction and most feel Audyssey has the edge.
If RC is a important, you could also consider an Anthem AVR used as a preamp for your mains.

- Rich

 

[Cos]

Search

I was considering upgrading my Integra 80.3 to the 8801 and this is the best deal I could find from on the AV8801 from an authorized reseller on new equipment. They have a physical storefront and online and they do take trade in of your old gear.

I would recommend a Pre/Pro or AVR with Audyssey 32 vs XT, if those are your options. I am not too familiar with Yamaha's or Pioneer's room correction, but Athem ARC works very well and has been improved upon in their most recent AVR (510/710) w/pre outs

That being said, I decided to hold off on upgrading until the HDMI 2.0 gear comes out. This is because I plan on upgrading to 4K when I purchase the projector for my man cave. I think Peng hit the head on the nail in that I think you will find it difficult to notice and sonic differences between pre/pros. (minus room correction) Having used Anthem / Integra / Marantz I think it comes down to the feature set as all will provide excellent sound reproduction. In my own case I am waiting until early next year when D&M releases it successor to the AV8801. I am also keeping an eye on Anthem if they upgrade the AVM50V 3D with HDMI 2.0 I may go back to Anthem. If you are 75% Music then Pure Direct Mode is the way I listen to music.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think in Direct mode, your current Pioneer AVR will sound as good as any pre-pro out there.

If you are using subwoofers and want to use something like Sub EQ and Dynamic EQ, then getting the Marantz pre-pro or Denon X4000 AVR would make sense.

So:
Direct mode = keep Pioneer
No subwoofers (only 2.0 mode) = keep Pioneer
Subwoofers + Sub EQ + Dynamic EQ = get Marantz or Denon

 

[BWguy]

Yes, I forgot to mention I am using a SVS SB 13 Ulta sub woofer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, I forgot to mention I am using a SVS SB 13 Ulta sub woofer.

Then the only question is do you just use Direct mode only or do you want to try Sub EQ + Dynamic EQ?

If the later, then definitely get the Marantz pre-pro or Denon AVR.

 

[BWguy]

I rarely listen in direct mode so I will look into the Marantz and Denon. My sub has some manual EQ settings but have not used them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I rarely listen in direct mode so I will look into the Marantz and Denon. My sub has some manual EQ settings but have not used them.

Yeah, forget the manual EQ settings and look at the Marantz or Denon.

 

[BWguy]

What about the Mcintosh MX 121? I can get a used one for about the same price as the Marantz 8801.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What about the Mcintosh MX 121? I can get a used one for about the same price as the Marantz 8801.

The MX121 has Audyssey XT Sub EQ + Dynamic EQ. Good for me. I would take it because I love the aesthetics of McIntosh.

Hmm, if I could do it all over again, I'd get one McIntosh MX121 pre-pro, two McIntosh MC205 amps, and five RBH SX-T2 towers.

 

[Cos]

The MX121 has Audyssey XT + Dynamic EQ. Good for me. I would take it because I love the aesthetics of McIntosh.

Hmm, if I could do it all over again, I'd get one McIntosh MX121 pre-pro, two McIntosh MC205 amps, and five RBH SX-T2 towers.

If I were t get McIntosh would also pick up the MEN220 Room correction unit. Having heard it in action, I was impressed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If I were t get McIntosh would also pick up the MEN220 Room correction unit. Having heard it in action, I was impressed.

I wouldn't care about any room correction. I just care about bass EQ below 200Hz and Dynamic EQ.

 

[7sevenz]

I am using a Pioneer SC65 as a pre pro with a Rotel RMB 1095 amp and B&W 804D speakers. I listen to music 75% of the time. I am thinking of upgrading my Pioneer and am considering The Rotel 1572, Marantz 8801 or 7701, and Yamaha 5000. Anyone have experience with any of these? Would all of these be superior to the Pioneer? Any other models I should consider?

Hi there, just to share my past experience, my setup is almost the same as yours. I'm using B&W 7 S-series speakers, driven by Rotel 1095. I switched quite a few AVRs before settling down with a Marantz processor (AV8003). After comparing side-by-side, though AV8003 doesn't have the latest audyssey, I observed a marked improvement in movies in terms of steering effects and multi channel integration. For music, musicality was a notch up too with the Marantz. [hence i kept this setup ]

Considering you are into 75% music,

1) If you are not intending to add stereo amp, AV8801 is a good choice. But first, you have to discern what is the Marantz house sound and whether you like it. It is a little different from the more dynamic sound signature from pioneer and onkyo amps, and this pro is a little pricey compared to option 2.

2) IMO, if u are really into music, suggest you keep your sc65, and add a stereo amp with HT bypass. e.g. MF, Parasound. For music, a stereo class A/B amp may be a better choice than a class D. I'm not into music, so those with stereo amp w/ HT bypass, pls jump in.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But first, you have to discern what is the Marantz house sound and whether you like it.

What is the Marantz house sound ?

In Direct mode, they all sound like +/- 0.1dB from 20Hz-20kHz.

Does Marantz lower the treble by -6dB from 8kHz-20kHz or something to give it a "warm" tube sound?

 

[fuzz092888]

What is the Marantz house sound ?

In Direct mode, they all sound like +/- 0.1dB from 20Hz-20kHz.

Does Marantz lower the treble by -6dB from 8kHz-20kHz or something to give it a "warm" tube sound?

Can't say I've experienced anything like that or at least it hasn't shown up in any of my measurements.

 

[BWguy]

Thanks 7sevenz.
Why do you say the Marantz gave you a notch up in music? What was the difference? A warmer sound maybe? Better separation? You are right, the price of the 8801 is holding me back.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thanks 7sevenz.
Why do you say the Marantz gave you a notch up in music? What was the difference? A warmer sound maybe? Better separation? You are right, the price of the 8801 is holding me back.

Here's advice for the OP: Notice how all of veteran forums member are rephrasing and repeating exactly same message - all pre-pro sound same (sans effects/dsp) and yet you choose to listen to advice of AH forums newbie

Imo you're after placebo effects rather real results. If you want to improve sound - your best bet would be a) different speakers and b) room treatments - some of the latter could be improved by moving the speakers and advanced EQ systems like Audyssey

Before investing any money into new pre/pro amp - you would better off investing into inexpensive acoustic measuring equipment

 

[7sevenz]

Thanks 7sevenz.
Why do you say the Marantz gave you a notch up in music? What was the difference? A warmer sound maybe? Better separation? You are right, the price of the 8801 is holding me back.

Sound is very subjective, especially to describe it in words. What sounds good to others may not sound good to you. What sounds warm to one person, may not sound warm to another. etc.

IMO, if we are not sure, the best way is to go to the used forums and get a few used amps to try it out. AV8801 will be hard to come by, so suggest to grab a used AV8003, AV7701, AV7005, and hear if you like the sound.

Plunging big monies into your system doesn't guarantee u will like the sound. Try it out, hear for yourself before deciding. That was what I did after reading up and hearing suggestions. The lesson I learnt was to really hear the difference in sound for myself in my own room. So i bought many used sets, switched around, listen with familiar tracks, compare, and finally, once i decided, i will keep the one i like or go for a brand new set. And it paid off. And I assure you, we can discuss the sound here for all we like, but nothing beats hearing it yourself and discerning what sounds the best to you.