Preamp / pro vs reciever questions

[Leon1972]

Ok so I am much confused at this point.
I know as far as receivers are concerned I have two options. An all in one inclusive or one with a seperage amplifier / preamp and tuner. I'm not exactly sure I understand what each one does and if it is really necessary in a home theater to go with the seperate components. Also if I am reading everything correctly if i go with seperate components it will be more expensive out the gate but cheaper in the Long run as only one component will need to be upgraded as technology changes and while initially this will hit the wallet harder it will be cheaper when it comes time to upgrade. Is this correct? Also every article I have found has been very confusing as I need simple terms for now till I start to learn more. Anyone have any links to any great articles for me?

 

[j_garcia]

You have it correct. Separates allows you to choose how much amp you need and then keep it for a long time. A pre/pro can last a long time too and in many cases can be upgraded or accommodate new features for a few generations much like a receiver. You can even use a receiver as your pre/pro if you have one that is current enough and it has preamp outputs.

Start with the speakers first, then look to the sort of amplification you will need to power them, whether that is a receiver or pre/pro and amp. Do you already have speakers?

 

[Leon1972]

So the pre/pro acts as the decoder and the amplifier is self explanatory.
Is the pre/pro the same thing? That's what I'm a little confused in. Or is the pre one thing and the pro another? I have an HTIB. I got the wifey to agree to 2k for speakers for now and then when I get out the army and we settle in I get a full theater room!!!!!! So I figure if I got the high end equip now I would only have to replace the theater portion of it when I get the big boy system and it would be hella cheaper.

 

[markw]

Look at the "pro" (processor) as the decoder and it's integrated into a preamp. Ergo, pre/pro.

Every AVR has a pre/pro at it's heart. It simply slaps a tuner in front of it and amps on the back of it.

You can buy some very well equipped, fairy powerful. receivers that offer preamp outputs that allow you to use external power amps if you should "outgrow" the power amps built into the AVR. Many find they never really need to go beyond a well-chosen receiver.

But, some speakers do put undue strain on some amps and with preamp outs you have thae option to simply get a bigger amp shound newer speakers require it.

Yes, some separte pre/pros may have a few features that some AVR's lack but you should think carefully if the cost difference is worth it. Remember, "features" don't always translate into real performance enhancements, just fancy reading ad copy.

 

[JerryLove]

Is the pre/pro the same thing? That's what I'm a little confused in. Or is the pre one thing and the pro another?

They are two separate things that are often combined into one piece of equipment.

"Pre" is short for "pre-amp". What it does is control the volume (adjusts the gain).

"Pro" is short for "processor". What it does is convert digital or matrixed signals into the individual analog signals that will end up going to individual speakers.

Technically, there's also a switch or source selector which is responsible for turning multiple inputs into individual outputs.

I've seen rigs where there was a separate device for each; but this is rare.

So I figure if I got the high end equip now I would only have to replace the theater portion of it when I get the big boy system and it would be hella cheaper.

The cheapest route is usually to get an AVR with pre-out's. You can then bypass the amps on it if you need more power later.

 

[Grador]

One very important thing to keep in mind is that these electronics will not make the HTIB speakers sound good. Putting 2k into this would be a terrible waste best spent on lower end electronics and better speakers.

 

[panteragstk]

One very important thing to keep in mind is that these electronics will not make the HTIB speakers sound good. Putting 2k into this would be a terrible waste best spent on lower end electronics and better speakers.

Also, I've seen some manufacturers use odd ohm levels for their speakers. I've seen anywhere from 3 to 16. 6ohms and up won't be a problem, but below that could be an issue.

 

[Leon1972]

Like I stated earlier the 2k is for speakers alone.i apologize if I wasn't clear on that. I'm just trying to figure out what route I should go receiver wise. If I go with an all in one instead of the separate components I'm looking at marantz for the moment.

I haven't done much receiver research yet. I know I want longevity so it must be hi tech and I want the ability to switch between different speakers. There will be speakers in different rooms in the wall for the wifey for music but that comes in ten years when I get out the service.

 

[markw]

Like I stated earlier the 2k is for speakers alone.i apologize if I wasn't clear on that. I'm just trying to figure out what route I should go receiver wise. If I go with an all in one instead of the separate components I'm looking at marantz for the moment.

I haven't done much receiver research yet. I know I want longevity so it must be hi tech and I want the ability to switch between different speakers. There will be speakers in different rooms in the wall for the wifey for music but that comes in ten years when I get out the service.

A lot can happen in ten years in this hobby, but depending on the number of rooms you're expecting to incorporate,with the addition of impedance matching volume controls your requirements are met by my Denon 2802, which I bought in 2003.

But, realistically, I'd plan on getting a new one when you retire and look more towards today and tomorrow.

 

[Grador]

You were clear enough on the budget, I misread it.

My vote is always for a receiver with pre outs. A decent one will cost you around the same as a pre/pro and you may find that it's amplifier is good enough for you.

 

[Leon1972]

A lot can happen in ten years in this hobby, but depending on the number of rooms you're expecting to incorporate,with the addition of impedance matching volume controls your requirements are met by my Denon 2802, which I bought in 2003.

But, realistically, I'd plan on getting a new one when you retire and look more towards today and tomorrow.

That is why I was thinking of going the pre/pro and amplifier route. I was thinking that now it may be more expensive to purchase a pre/pro and an amplifier but in ten years Wouldnt only I be replacing the pre/pro? An amplifier will remain relatively the same as what it does will not change but the pre/pro will have new cable types and different decoding types to keep up with. My thinking is for future upgrades to upgrade just the pre/pro and not a full reciever will be less expensive. I mean lets get real, realistically these things will change at LEAST every ten years significantly enough to want to upgrade it.

 

[markw]

You sound like you've made up your mind and just want affirmation so what's the point in trying to talk you out of it?

Have at it. I guess you can see what will be in ten years.

 

[Leon1972]

You sound like you've made up your mind and just want affirmation so what's the point in trying to talk you out of it?

Have at it. I guess you can see what will be in ten years.

I have not yet made up my mind. I just haven't gotten an affirmation one way or the other on whether I was wrong on my original question.
Don't get me wrong, I have been told a lot I did not know and It is all great information that I am very grateful for but my original question was not answered or maybe I asked it wrong. Let me try just one final time.

Scenario one is I buy a reciever now and replace it every ten to fifteen years (for arguments same)

Scenario two is I buy a pre/pro and amplifier. I would only then need to replace the pre/pro every ten to fifteen years(again for arguments sake)

Which one, long term, not short, would be more cost effective

 

[PENG]

I have not yet made up my mind. I just haven't gotten an affirmation one way or the other on whether I was wrong on my original question.
Don't get me wrong, I have been told a lot I did not know and It is all great information that I am very grateful for but my original question was not answered or maybe I asked it wrong. Let me try just one final time.

Scenario one is I buy a reciever now and replace it every ten to fifteen years (for arguments same)

Scenario two is I buy a pre/pro and amplifier. I would only then need to replace the pre/pro every ten to fifteen years(again for arguments sake)

Which one, long term, not short, would be more cost effective

It is a tough question to answer and you will likely be getting subjective opinions because for people to offer relatively objective opinions (yes, still just opinions) they would need to know more about your needs, such as room size, listening distance, how loud you typically listen to, do you believe in being able to hear differences in sound quality that are probably not detectable by most people especially when the prepro/amp or AVR are not the weak link in your system, and so on.

Anyway, just food for thought, I went from AVR with preouts + a 2 channel amp to prepro + MCH amps but if I were to do it again I would likely go back to a mid high range AVR such as a Denon AVR-4311/4520 plus just a 2 channel amp. As it is now, my prepro is an AV7005 and my logical upgrade path would be the AV-8801, but that thing costs $3699 (economy of scale effect?). So the advantage of an easier upgrade path for separates is really elusive in my case. Had I gone the other path, I would just wait another 6 months and pick up a 4520 for under 2K. It is something that sounds good on surface, but not really as good in substance, due to factors such as economy of scale and limitations in available options.

 

[Leon1972]

It is a tough question to answer and you will likely be getting subjective opinions because for people to offer relatively objective opinions (yes, still just opinions) they would need to know more about your needs, such as room size, listening distance, how loud you typically listen to, do you believe in being able to hear differences in sound quality that are probably not detectable by most people especially when the prepro/amp or AVR are not the weak link in your system, and so on.

Anyway, just food for thought, I went from AVR with preouts + a 2 channel amp to prepro + MCH amps but if I were to do it again I would likely go back to a mid high range AVR such as a Denon AVR-4311/4520 plus just a 2 channel amp. As it is now, my prepro is an AV7005 and my logical upgrade path would be the AV-8801, but that thing costs $3699 (economy of scale effect?). So the advantage of an easier upgrade path for separates is really elusive in my case. Had I gone the other path, I would just wait another 6 months and pick up a 4520 for under 2K. It is something that sounds good on surface, but not really as good in substance, due to factors such as economy of scale and limitations in available options.

Yeah. I looked at the differences in price finally and good god!!!! It is MUCH more expensive. Now that I know I'm going the reciever route I just need to research the different tech so I know what to look for.
Thank you for the eye opener!!!!

 

[JerryLove]

Scenario one is I buy a reciever now and replace it every ten to fifteen years (for arguments same)

Scenario two is I buy a pre/pro and amplifier. I would only then need to replace the pre/pro every ten to fifteen years(again for arguments sake)

Which one, long term, not short, would be more cost effective

An AVR with pre-outs would be cheaper in both the long and short run.

Buy an amp when and if you need the extra current.

 

[Leon1972]

An AVR with pre-outs would be cheaper in both the long and short run.

Buy an amp when and if you need the extra current.

Yeah. That's the route I'm going to go. Thank you everyone for all the help in coming to this conclusion!!!!