surveyor

surveyor

Audioholic Chief
Do Yamaha AVR's have a higher pre-amp output than the Denon AVR 1.2 V output?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Your Denon has a higher output than 1.2V. Why do you ask?
 
surveyor

surveyor

Audioholic Chief
Your Denon has a higher output than 1.2V. Why do you ask?
The Outlaw Model 770 amp requires 1.43 V to reach full output. Both my Denon AVR-3312ci and my AVR-4520ci specs read 1.2 V analog output.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The Outlaw Model 770 amp requires 1.43 V to reach full output. Both my Denon AVR-3312ci and my AVR-4520ci specs read 1.2 V analog output.
You cannot go by that because, like the power consumption thing, they all seem to specify the preout voltage under different conditions.

In fact if you go by what they specified in the manual, for the Yamaha CX-A5100, it is 1V/470 ohms.

I have seen some really high end preamp including a Krell one, the specified was even much lower than 1V, but again, they did not provide any qualifications.

If you go by AH's bench test data, then they invariably tested higher than 2V.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
You cannot go by that because, like the power consumption thing, they all seem to specify the preout voltage under different conditions.

In fact if you go by what they specified in the manual, for the Yamaha CX-A5100, it is 1V/470 ohms.

I have seen some really high end preamp including a Krell one, the specified was even much lower than 1V, but again, they did not provide any qualifications.

If you go by AH's bench test data, then they invariably tested higher than 2V.
Agreed. "1.2V"--qualify that--is it 1.2Vrms or 1.2Vpeak?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yup, 2Vpeak = 1.4Vrms
To add to that, it also depends on other factors, e.g. Yamaha specified 1V/470 ohm (that seems very conservative), so if the amp's input impedance is much higher, the Yamaha should presumably be able to put out much higher voltage. We don't know what the maximum would be, other than going by bench test data, e.g. Audioholic's. Remember, everything is current limited, so load impedance matters.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Lets kleer the air about pre-out levels..
Typical Japanese origin home audio products have used a 1V RMS as the standard. However in pro-audio products, a higher typical standard existed of 1.4V RMS. The challenge today is that certain amplifiers like the Crown originally targeted to the pro-side is being used in home theater applications as it is a great watts per $ value.. Also more channels of amplication are required for Atmos and DTS X. Crown realizing this now has switchable pre-amp IN sensitivities for best compatability with the consumer and pro market segments...

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
surveyor

surveyor

Audioholic Chief
I use Crown XLS amps with 1.4V sensitivity, can reach clip levels no problem with my 4520. The 1.2V spec is some sort of nominal rating, wouldn't worry about it, like Peng says usually tested at 2V or higher. Try this article http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-voltage-gain
Just inquiring as to what speakers you are driving- as the 4520 has a pretty healthy amplifier. I drive my Infinity Beta 50 series with Infinity IL-10's SB and SR. The front Beta 50 are bi-amped. I use all 9 channels of the 4520. The 4520 drives them great!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Just inquiring as to what speakers you are driving- as the 4520 has a pretty healthy amplifier. I drive my Infinity Beta 50 series with Infinity IL-10's SB and SR. The front Beta 50 are bi-amped. I use all 9 channels of the 4520. The 4520 drives them great!
I use my 4520 for my speakers, the XLS amps are for 3 diy subs and a tactile transducer. JBL Studio 590 LR, 530 Wides, 520 C, Ascend 170SE surrounds, 200SE rear surrounds.
 
surveyor

surveyor

Audioholic Chief
I use my 4520 for my speakers, the XLS amps are for 3 diy subs and a tactile transducer. JBL Studio 590 LR, 530 Wides, 520 C, Ascend 170SE surrounds, 200SE rear surrounds.
Sounds good!
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
The 770 is specified to reach rated power at 1.4 volts, but that's probably 1db or more less than the amplifier is capable of. The Outlaw 770 is also rated for a gain factor of 28db (gain specs are usually pretty accurate), which is lowish for a home amp, though 28db is typical of unbalanced ATI-designed amps. (The 770 was designed and built by ATI.) Many home amps these days have a gain factor of 32-34db, because many receiver pre-amp outputs are weak (as are the outputs of my Outlaw pre-pro), and even ATI uses 34db of gain on the single-ended (RCA) inputs of their amps with XLR inputs too. (And the XLR inputs are rated for 28db.)

And sometimes just reading specs does you no good, even when you know what you're looking at, because manufacturers usually don't specify what impedance they measured output into. The Outlaw 975 pre-pro is rated at 2.0v RMS at the outputs, yet it can't drive my amp with 28db of gain to anything like full output. Go figure.

If the Denon drives your amp loud enough for you, be happy. Without a bench test you'll never know if you're really getting the maximum output the amp can deliver.
 
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