Post Review - HSU vs Rhythmik

[cschang]

I politely beg to differ. The ULS-15 driver is made and distributed by who as for one example? I think the word "custom" is a term that is really used loosely in the AV industry.

It is made in China for Hsu...to Hsu's specs. It may be based on another driver, but so are Rythmik drivers.

If you want to talk about being absolutely unique, then yes, the servo mechanism in Rythmik drivers are unique.

 

[Matt34]

I politely beg to differ. The ULS-15 driver is made and distributed by who as for one example? I think the word "custom" is a term that is really used loosely in the AV industry.

So do you have any stock in the success of Rythmik Audio? I have to ask because 90% of your posts here and elsewhere is either promoting them or dissing other subwoofer companies?

In other words I get very perturbed over fanboy-ish behavior and it doesn't do the community any service.

 

[Sputter]

I politely beg to differ. The ULS-15 driver is made and distributed by who as for one example? I think the word "custom" is a term that is really used loosely in the AV industry.

Thinking and knowing are worlds apart. Can you state with knowledge that the driver used in the 15H is not custom designed from the ground up?

 

[jayhawk785]

So do you have any stock in the success of Rythmik Audio? I have to ask because 90% of your posts here and elsewhere is either promoting them or dissing other subwoofer companies?

In other words I get very perturbed over fanboy-ish behavior and it doesn't do the community any service.

It's like listening to a rythmik sales person... I find that posts like his will actually steer me away from a product. makes you feel like they're being paid to represent the company, which is a turn-off.

 

[billy p]

It's like listening to a rythmik sales person... I find that posts like his will actually steer me away from a product. makes you feel like they're being paid to represent the company, which is a turn-off.

I can understand brand loyalty to a certain extent and giving praise to that product, but don't continually slam the others in trying to make your point. I had hear about Rythmik's designs prior but the current audioholics review gave me a whole new perspective regarding those products, but his comments can be seen as a turn off by some.

 

[Sepen]

I can understand brand loyalty to a certain extent and giving praise to that product, but don't continually slam the others in trying to make your point. I had hear about Rythmik's designs prior but the current audioholics review gave me a whole new perspective regarding those products, but his comments can be seen as a turn off by some.

I agree. If you like a product, fine, praise it. But when you slam other manufacturers it brings pause to me and others.

 

[ntrain42]

It is made in China for Hsu...to Hsu's specs. It may be based on another driver, but so are Rythmik drivers.

If you want to talk about being absolutely unique, then yes, the servo mechanism in Rythmik drivers are unique.

Thats whats stated, but again knowing HSU products well. I've pulled apart a few VTF and one ULS sub and the components used are pretty typical run of the mill stuff. From my experience with HSU subs, the money/research is put into the enclosure design, not the components themselves. Its ALOT cheaper to mass produce a product with high markup this way. Nothing wrong with this at all. But I'd rather start off with a product thats designed around using better built components myself.

 

[GranteedEV]

the rrythmik driber has 20mm of linear xmax? if you measuted it without servo would you claim the same thing?

 

[ntrain42]

So do you have any stock in the success of Rythmik Audio? I have to ask because 90% of your posts here and elsewhere is either promoting them or dissing other subwoofer companies?

In other words I get very perturbed over fanboy-ish behavior and it doesn't do the community any service.

Well let me ask you this:

A. What is the title of this thread?
B. What's its purpose, pros/cons between the 2 if Im correct.
C. I happen to give my views in depth. But Im not on every single thread here spreading my opinion unless its asked for.
D. Most products produced in the AV market are garbage plain and simple. Now Im not calling HSU products garbage. I think for the money they are very respectable, but I do know the design philosophy and marketing strategy(check out HSU's webpage forum, there is a lot of "best of class" terms being thrown around,........but what does that mean specifically and to who? LOL) around them.
E. If this happened to be an SVS vs. HSU, Id take SVS in a heartbeat. Again thats a company that uses a higher quality component set in their designs to begin with.


I mean, and someone calling out someone else a fanboy should look around this forum. I see quite a few members promoting one specific brand/model all the time, and doing it probably having only experience with one specific brand or model. At least I can say I've dealt with and have experience with literally millions of dollars worth of equipment over 20 years time and am willing to put a blunt perspective on how much garbage there is out there in one form or another.

 

[cschang]

Thats whats stated, but again knowing HSU products well. I've pulled apart a few VTF and one ULS sub and the components used are pretty typical run of the mill stuff. From my experience with HSU subs, the money/research is put into the enclosure design, not the components themselves. Its ALOT cheaper to mass produce a product with high markup this way. Nothing wrong with this at all. But I'd rather start off with a product thats designed around using better built components myself.

Hsu's thought has always been "get the performance we want, it doesn't have to look fancy". Pulling the sub apart and looking at the driver, you can tell it is "off the shelf"?

As for run of the mill...the ULS driver. Do you know what patented technology that driver uses? You call it "run of the mill"?

I really don't think you are being fair, especially when it comes to marketing. Have you read the SVS site? These are all respected companies, with excellent products.

 

[sholling]

I mean, and someone calling out someone else a fanboy should look around this forum. I see quite a few members promoting one specific brand/model all the time, and doing it probably having only experience with one specific brand or model. At least I can say I've dealt with and have experience with literally millions of dollars worth of equipment over 20 years time and am willing to put a blunt perspective on how much garbage there is out there in one form or another.

I think what people are getting tired of (I know I am) is the continual 'legend in your own mind' disparagement of other members' opinions, tastes, and gear ("garbage"). Quite frankly I'm about half as likely to buy Rythmik products in the future after reading your postings.

 

[RicHSAD]

One of the reasons why I bought a Rythmik sub was because I actually found their website and marketing strategy convincing. Reading SVS's or HSU's website, all I see is a bunch of buzzwords and claims to be the best with no concrete explanation or measurements to support their claims. That certainly doesn't mean that they make bad subs, but in the end I felt more confident that Rythmik would deliver me a quality product and what I got was exactly as advertised.

 

[ntrain42]

Hsu's thought has always been "get the performance we want, it doesn't have to look fancy". Pulling the sub apart and looking at the driver, you can tell it is "off the shelf"?

As for run of the mill...the ULS driver. Do you know what patented technology that driver uses? You call it "run of the mill"?

I really don't think you are being fair, especially when it comes to marketing. Have you read the SVS site? These are all respected companies, with excellent products.

Yes I know HSU's thoughts. Though the thought is, that its done to an extreme extent in regards to parts selection. Specifically the VTF line.

Backtracking a bit, the ULS driver is definetly a good sounding sub, the plate amp I'm not a big fan of though. The ULS series I have alot of experience with. Its the HSU product I have many times recommended previous to the Rythmik/SVS subs.

 

[Sepen]

One of the reasons why I bought a Rythmik sub was because I actually found their website and marketing strategy convincing. Reading SVS's or HSU's website, all I see is a bunch of buzzwords and claims to be the best with no concrete explanation or measurements to support their claims. That certainly doesn't mean that they make bad subs, but in the end I felt more confident that Rythmik would deliver me a quality product and what I got was exactly as advertised.

There are plenty of Pro reviews of HSU subs. Look over the reviews and I sure you will find all the measurements that one could want.

I wish I could afford to have both the VTF-15 and FV15HP in my room at the same time, then send back the one I didn't want.

Maybe two years ago I could have done it but with the downturn in construction I am lucky to be able to afford only one.

 

[KEW]

ntrain,

I appreciate much of the information you have brought about Rythmik subs which I have not seen pointed out so well contrasted with other brands. However, like others, I find portions of your posts a bit off-putting.
Your post below was a great and informative post. I'm not positive I believe everything in it, but that is the nature of reading things on the internet - it does get readers on the look-out for further confirmation or denial of your statements as they look elsewhere, which aids learning.
However, I highlighted the one statement which, IMHO, makes everything you have said suspect (comments below your post).

Ill try and answer this in order from the quotes above.

A. Does Epik even have any "higher" level products?

Can you tell me what the T/S parameters are? WHat size and material the VC is made of? SHorting ring if any? Cast aluminum basket? No, I can tell you Epik's Empire sub uses a pair of pretty cheap drivers that feature a generic stamp steel basket, foam surround, Im not sure what the voice coil size is or what its is made of but Im sure its a kypton former and not aluminum. Here is a link: http://epiksubwoofers.com/empire.html Scroll down to the "drivers" section. Not exactly a high end unit and no T/S parameters are given either. I mean for $799 what do you expect? 2 drivers opposed in a small enclosure to minimize shipping costs and a class D chip amp.
And this is just one example. Same can be said for HSU..........show me some T/S parameters from HSU's website.

HSU is basically all marketing..........and please explain to me what HSU's "best in class" marketing bull is supposed to mean? LOL! Its a joke.

WHat do you REALLY KNOW about the HSU front firing driver? WHat is custom about it? T/S parameters? Pictures? Breakdown of its design and materials used? Funny how none of that stuff is kicking around isn't it? Use your common sense here is all I can say.

And a pulp cone reinforced by kevlar or nylon or a composite of some type is pretty generic these days and very common. Don't let em fool you? Nothing exotic about the driver HSU or Epik uses as an example.

On the amp section. CLass D chip amps are extremely efficient and they are absolutely DIRT CHEAP to mass produce. Mfg's use them because they are dirt cheap to produce, efficient in power usage(so 1000 plus watt amps are common) and work well in subwoofers because the lower frequencies can easily mask the natural SQ deficiencies of most class D amps.

Analog class A/B and G/H amps on the other hand are significantly more expensive to produce. You just don't see many subs with them these days. ANd with the trend towards subwoofers needing a kilowatt of power or more its more practical and much less expensive to make a small compact class D chip amp than a good analog amplifier of the same power. Rythmik's 600 watt Class H(basically a much more efficient class A/B amp with variable voltage rails)plate amp weighs about 25-30 pounds on its own. Its extremely heavy for a sub plate amp.

And yes eD does disclose alot of info on their drivers. Their drivers are decent. I owned a few different ED HT subs, but I just wasn't really impressed with their performance(surprisingly the sealed ones). THe plate amps they use just plain suck and are not relaible at all IMO. Of the 2 pairs I owned over the course of 3 months I had one DOA and 2 failures. And I am the type who keeps the gains very low and does not over drive a product to get output. If I need more output, I buy and daisy chain another sub into the mix.

HSU is basically all marketing...
Do you really believe this is a true statement?
I believe Hsu consistently produces good subs and I don't believe any company can do that through marketing alone.
I'd be willing to bet there are companies that would be embarrassed to admit how much they have spent on design which still have not produced consistently good subs the way Hsu has.
I'm not a Hsu fan-boy, but you need to give them their due.


Also:
Please do answer Matt's question in no uncertain terms:
Do you have any affiliation or vested interest in Rythmik?

Understand, I do not mean this post to heckle you. I hope it will help you understand why members are concerned about your motives and reluctant to buy into facts you may be providing.
Please be a little more careful in your criticisms.

 

[ntrain42]

There are plenty of Pro reviews of HSU subs. Look over the reviews and I sure you will find all the measurements that one could want.

I wish I could afford to have both the VTF-15 and FV15HP in my room at the same time, then send back the one I didn't want.

Maybe two years ago I could have done it but with the downturn in construction I am lucky to be able to afford only one.

Most pro reviews are nothing more than paid forms of advertisement. And very few take standardized measurements. Trust me it would be nice if they did. Even the reviews done here on this sub shootout, leave alot to be desired and were not very thorough on the 2 subs reviewed so far. Im glad they are being done, I just wish with the time it takes(3 weeks between reviews)to do them there would be more in depth measurements at different power levels and lower THD standards whether its an SVS, Rythmik or whomever.

 

[ntrain42]

ntrain,

I appreciate much of the information you have brought about Rythmik subs which I have not seen pointed out so well contrasted with other brands. However, like others, I find portions of your posts a bit off-putting.
Your post below was a great and informative post. I'm not positive I believe everything in it, but that is the nature of reading things on the internet - it does get readers on the look-out for further confirmation or denial of your statements as they look elsewhere, which aids learning.
However, I highlighted the one statement which, IMHO, makes everything you have said suspect (comments below your post).




HSU is basically all marketing...
Do you really believe this is a true statement?
I believe Hsu consistently produces good subs and I don't believe any company can do that through marketing alone.
I'd be willing to bet there are companies that would be embarrassed to admit how much they have spent on design which still have not produced consistently good subs the way Hsu has.
I'm not a Hsu fan-boy, but you need to give them their due.


Also:
Please do answer Matt's question in no uncertain terms:
Do you have any affiliation or vested interest in Rythmik?

Understand, I do not mean this post to heckle you. I hope it will help you understand why members are concerned about your motives and reluctant to buy into facts you may be providing.
Please be a little more careful in your criticisms.

You know, I agree with you 100% that there are many companies who would be 100% EMBARRASSED with the little time and research they put into their products. And this is in direct comparison to HSU alone. That backs up my point 100% that the majority of the stuff thrown at consumers in the AV market is garbage. Hell, I sold alot of that garbage. One great example. Transparent Cable. Anybody want to buy a pair of Opus RCA's for $11k? I sold this crap to people for years. I got a closet full of cabling given to me from vendors over the years, and I pull it out every once in awhile to "demo" it to friends(or friends of friends)compared to some of the stuff I buy from places like Monoprice and BJC etc. I'd mention some speaker companies that make overpriced junk too, but I don't want to get outside of the scope of what Im trying to say.

IMO ID companies are supposed to offer much bigger bang for the bucks per dollar spent since your bypassing distributor/dealer markup and sales commision. Some definetly do that better than others and really give you your full dollars worth. SVS and Rythmik are 2 that do that. HSU, kind of teeters on not doing that with some of their products. Epik, I think they have went really cheap with the components used in their newer dual opposed subs when you compare it to their older products like the Phoenix and Conquest subs which were very good. Maybe this puts my words in better persepctive.

 

[shadyJ]

The man is very enthusiastic about Rythmik products, I wouldn't let that discourage me from buying one if I were looking at Rythmik subs. I definitely wouldn't let that discourage me from going with Hsu either. What matters most in the end is distortion free SPL for your dollar. If Hsu has found a less expensive way of doing that, I don't feel that is a problem, and it's not as if Hsu subs are unreliable or sound bad. I would say the VTF subs are some of the very best subs you can buy in their price point.

Another thing is the claim that Hsu is all marketing, this is crazy. I would say one of Hsu's biggest weaknesses is marketing. In fact, they don't do much marketing at all. The only ad I have ever seen of Hsu is a little picture at the top of AVSforum. Their promotional product pages on their website is probably the most minimal of any of the ID sub companies. Hsu's marketing is 95% word of mouth, and if their products were bad, they wouldn't have lasted as long as they have.

 

[cschang]

Yes I know HSU's thoughts. Though the thought is, that its done to an extreme extent in regards to parts selection. Specifically the VTF line.

Backtracking a bit, the ULS driver is definetly a good sounding sub, the plate amp I'm not a big fan of though. The ULS series I have alot of experience with. Its the HSU product I have many times recommended previous to the Rythmik/SVS subs.

It is what you read into it.

So, is the ULS driver "off the shelf"?