Pioneer VSX21txh crossover settings

[Tungsten06GT]

Hey guys,

Can anyone who owns a vsx21txh help me out with crossover settings? You can only adjust a global crossover right? It's kind of funny how 100, 80, or 50 Hz are the only selections you can pick for all of your speakers. Is 80 the optimal setting regardless of your speakers?

Thanks in advance

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey guys,

Can anyone who owns a vsx21txh help me out with crossover settings? You can only adjust a global crossover right? It's kind of funny how 100, 80, or 50 Hz are the only selections you can pick for all of your speakers. Is 80 the optimal setting regardless of your speakers?

Thanks in advance

No it is not, and this is a huge limitation of the receiver, sub/speaker approach.

 

[Tungsten06GT]

No it is not, and this is a huge limitation of the receiver, sub/speaker approach.

Ugh... wish I would have known this before I bought it! Ha, I mean it sounds pretty good, but it sure would be nice to kick the rear channels' crossover up and the fronts' down, and have the sub's go a little lower..

You'd think Pioneer could fix it with a firmware update or something, seems like a simple software fix to me.

 

[nibhaz]

It's only a huge limitation if your receiver applies global crossover points from a limited selection of choices.

Many of today’s receivers allow you to apply different crossover points for each speaker with a large range of choices in 10 db increments. It’s not optimal, but it’s a pretty far cry from a tragedy.

OP,

Out of all of your speakers, what is the highest low frequency -3db point?

It’s unlikely that all of your speakers go down to 50 Hz so you can throw that option out.

100 Hz may lead to bass localization, so that should be used with caution or as a last resort.

If all of your speakers have at least a -3db point of 80 Hz then this should be the crossover point for you considering your limited options.

 

[nibhaz]

Ugh... wish I would have known this before I bought it! Ha, I mean it sounds pretty good, but it sure would be nice to kick the rear channels' crossover up and the fronts' down, and have the sub's go a little lower..

You'd think Pioneer could fix it with a firmware update or something, seems like a simple software fix to me.

It a function of pricepoint...sorry

This is one of the features that often differentiates the lower end models from the higher end.

 

[Tungsten06GT]

Out of all of your speakers, what is highest low frequency -3db point?
It’s unlikely that all of your speakers go down to 50 Hz so you can throw that option out.

100 Hz may lead to bass localization, so that should be used with caution or as a last resort.

If all of your speakers have at least a -3db point of 80 Hz then this should be the crossover point for you considering your limited options.

My towers have a -3db point of 50 hz, but the center and rears are rated at 60 hz... So unfortunately I'm stuck with 80 hz, which definitely works, but like I said it would be nice to have that option of adjusting a little further.

 

[TLS Guy]

Ugh... wish I would have known this before I bought it! Ha, I mean it sounds pretty good, but it sure would be nice to kick the rear channels' crossover up and the fronts' down, and have the sub's go a little lower..

You'd think Pioneer could fix it with a firmware update or something, seems like a simple software fix to me.

What are your speakers. Could you not set your left and right speakers at least to large.

Any decent speaker with a self respecting bass extension and power handling should be set to large.

From my researches driving a good speaker via a high pass filter above 25 Hz is highly deleterious.

B & W for one recommend never setting any of their capable speakers to small.

I have all my speakers set to large. I don't use a sub, but the LFE signal is sent to four 10" drivers in the two main speakers.

You really need decent capable fronts at least as for SACD direct and pure direct modes, as no signal will get sent to your sub. I have found that if there is no sub channel on an SACD, and there usually isn't, no signal is sent via the LFE output even after PCM conversion.

So for the best of systems you do need full range, and I mean truly full range speakers for at least the front left and rights.

 

[TLS Guy]

My towers have a -3db point of 50 hz, but the center and rears are rated at 60 hz... So unfortunately I'm stuck with 80 hz, which definitely works, but like I said it would be nice to have that option of adjusting a little further.

So all of your speakers are far from full range. Actually if your sub is close to your mains, your optimal crossover point is probably 100 HZ. Setting the crossover for speakers like that the best starting point for the crossover is X2 F3.

If your speakers have robust woofers, you could set your mains to large and set the crossover to 100 Hz, this would likely give you the best results.

If you are concerned about how robust your drivers are, then set all your speakers to small and try a crossover point of 100 Hz to start with.

 

[Tungsten06GT]

So all of your speakers are far from full range. Actually if your sub is close to your mains, your optimal crossover point is probably 100 HZ. Setting the crossover for speakers like that the best starting point for the crossover is X2 F3.

If your speakers have robust woofers, you could set your mains to large and set the crossover to 100 Hz, this would likely give you the best results.

If you are concerned about how robust your drivers are, then set all your speakers to small and try a crossover point of 100 Hz to start with.

My speakers are the EMP Impression series for all fronts, center, and rear. The fronts are "large" speakers in a sense, they each have 2 6.5" woofers, 1 5.25" mid, and a 1" tweeter; even before my sub I thought they sounded pretty good. But see, setting the fronts to large means that LFE that would normally be sent to the subwoofer for the front channels, won't.. unless I set my sub to "Plus" rather than just "Yes" in the manual speaker setup, sending frequencies below the crossover setting to both fronts and sub. Then I run into too much bass..

My sub is Elemental Design's A3-300, and they recommend using a crossover setting of 50-60 hz.. So, you see the delemmas here.

 

[TLS Guy]

My speakers are the EMP Impression series for all fronts, center, and rear. The fronts are "large" speakers in a sense, they each have 2 6.5" woofers, 1 5.25" mid, and a 1" tweeter; even before my sub I thought they sounded pretty good. But see, setting the fronts to large means that LFE that would normally be sent to the subwoofer for the front channels, won't.. unless I set my sub to "Plus" rather than just "Yes" in the manual speaker setup, sending frequencies below the crossover setting to both fronts and sub. Then I run into too much bass..

My sub is Elemental Design's A3-300, and they recommend using a crossover setting of 50-60 hz.. So, you see the delemmas here.

Then you have the sub too loud if you are filling in the mains.

Adding a sub to fill in the roll off of a speaker that is any good, takes a minute amount of power.

 

[nibhaz]

My sub is Elemental Design's A3-300, and they recommend using a crossover setting of 50-60 hz.. So, you see the delemmas here.

This may be your problem or at least part of it?

If you are using the electronic crossover in your receiver then you do not want to use the crossover in your sub. Using both will result in cascading crossovers which might cause irregular and uneven deep bass output.

In order to avoid this situation you set the subwoofer’s crossover to its maximum clockwise rotation to remove it from the circuit. For your sub, you’ll want to turn the center dial (low pass filter) all the way to 180 Hz.

 

[Tungsten06GT]

This may be your problem or at least part of it?

If you are using the electronic crossover in your receiver then you do not want to use the crossover in your sub. Using both will result in cascading crossovers which might cause irregular and uneven deep bass output.

In order to avoid this situation you set the subwoofer’s crossover to its maximum clockwise rotation to remove it from the circuit. For your sub, you’ll want to turn the center dial (low pass filter) all the way to 180 Hz.

Thanks; Yesterday I also tried setting the receiver's crossover to 100 hz, then setting the mains as large, sub to Plus, and dialing down the sub's crossover to ~50 hz, but it still just didn't sound right.

So, it seems like setting all speakers to small and using the 80 hz crossover with the sub's crossover cranked to 180 sounds the best. It's probably just one of the limitations of my system on a "moderate" budget..

 

[nibhaz]

Thanks; Yesterday I also tried setting the receiver's crossover to 100 hz, then setting the mains as large, sub to Plus, and dialing down the sub's crossover to ~50 hz, but it still just didn't sound right.

So, it seems like setting all speakers to small and using the 80 hz crossover with the sub's crossover cranked to 180 sounds the best. It's probably just one of the limitations of my system on a "moderate" budget..

This is probably the optimal setting for your setup. IMHO I’m not surprised that you find this to be the better setting either.

Don’t fret what you’re system can’t do and just enjoy what it does do….unless you have an unlimited budget.