Pioneer Elite SC-07 A/V Receiver Review

[patgilm]

I'd lean towards the Denon 4308CI or Yamaha RX-Z7 even though its not on your list. The Z7 is the most impressive receiver I have tested this year by far!

Gene,

I searched but could not find a review by Audioholics for the 4308CI. Did you guys ever review this receiver? I would be curious as to how it compares to the SC-07 from a professional reviewer. I replaced my 4308CI with the SC-07 and I personally thought the sound qulality of the SC-07 blew the 4308CI away. I also felt that the 4308CI was underpowered and did not live up to its 140x7 power rating. The 4308CI did offer way better features than the SC-07 including a great on screen display, wi fi capability and HDMI upconversion (although the chip in the 4308CI is not great and I would bypass it anyway).

I am curious why you believe the 4308CI is a better especially considering the MSRP is $500 higher (even though both can be had for the same price from authorized dealers). Do you think the sound quality is better or are you basing your opinion on features?

Thanks,

Pat

 

[gene]

I searched but could not find a review by Audioholics for the 4308CI. Did you guys ever review this receiver? I would be curious as to how it compares to the SC-07 from a professional reviewer. I replaced my 4308CI with the SC-07 and I personally thought the sound qulality of the SC-07 blew the 4308CI away. I also felt that the 4308CI was underpowered and did not live up to its 140x7 power rating. The 4308CI did offer way better features than the SC-07 including a great on screen display, wi fi capability and HDMI upconversion (although the chip in the 4308CI is not great and I would bypass it anyway).

I am curious why you believe the 4308CI is a better especially considering the MSRP is $500 higher (even though both can be had for the same price from authorized dealers). Do you think the sound quality is better or are you basing your opinion on features?

Thanks,

Pat

That sounds pretty unusual. You sure it wasn't a setup or Audyssey issue? I have never found Denon upper echelon receivers to be underpowered. We haven't reviewed the 4308 but did fine favorable results with the 5308.

If you're looking solely at amp power, you may want to go with a less expensive receiver and put money towards external amplification such as an Emotiva XPA-2 or XPA-5.

 

[derek44]

what do you lose if the Pioneer SC 07 doesn't do HDMI video processing? does this matter if all i really watch is HD TV, DVD and Blu Ray? my tv is 1080p? Does this mean the picture isn't as good? Can it just pass through the video of the HD cable box, blu ray player and TV? Can someone explain?

 

[patgilm]

That sounds pretty unusual. You sure it wasn't a setup or Audyssey issue? I have never found Denon upper echelon receivers to be underpowered. We haven't reviewed the 4308 but did fine favorable results with the 5308.

If you're looking solely at amp power, you may want to go with a less expensive receiver and put money towards external amplification such as an Emotiva XPA-2 or XPA-5.

I don't think it was an Audessey issue as I set it up several times and it was pretty accurate. Several others on AVS that had the 4308 felt the same way but I was hoping to see some professional testing of the 4308 just to see how it did. I would expect the 5308 to be more favorable given that it has torroidal amps in it like the previous 4806 but it seemed that the 4308 was a step down (and even less expensive) from the older 4806 with the torroidal amp. If I had the money, I would have purchased the 5308 for sure.

 

[gene]

I don't think it was an Audessey issue as I set it up several times and it was pretty accurate. Several others on AVS that had the 4308 felt the same way but I was hoping to see some professional testing of the 4308 just to see how it did. I would expect the 5308 to be more favorable given that it has torroidal amps in it like the previous 4806 but it seemed that the 4308 was a step down (and even less expensive) from the older 4806 with the torroidal amp. If I had the money, I would have purchased the 5308 for sure.

Yes I agree some of the new Denon line essentially traded amp quality for features. The 4308 is definately not a replacement to the 4806 just like the 5308 is NOT a replacement to the 5805. We likely wont be testing the 4308 b/c we covered a lot of Denon products this year. If you're happy with the sonics of the SC-07, I'd stick with that, especially if your running 8 ohm speakers. Its certainly a fine sounding receiver and the measurements are far worse than the actual fidelity I was hearing as I stated in the review.

 

[patgilm]

Yes I agree some of the new Denon line essentially traded amp quality for features. The 4308 is definately not a replacement to the 4806 just like the 5308 is NOT a replacement to the 5805. We likely wont be testing the 4308 b/c we covered a lot of Denon products this year. If you're happy with the sonics of the SC-07, I'd stick with that, especially if your running 8 ohm speakers. Its certainly a fine sounding receiver and the measurements are far worse than the actual fidelity I was hearing as I stated in the review.

Yeah I should have mentioned that I am using a 7.1 setup running all B&W 7 series speakers which are 8 ohms. I did not bridge the SC-07 like you did so maybe that makes a difference in sound, I don't know, I'm not an expert by any means. I was just a little disappointed how my speakers sounded with the 4308CI so I got rid of it.

As far as the Emotiva gear, I was going to get the 7 channel amp and the preamp but it seems like the new preamp has been promised for months and has not been release as far as I know.

 

[gene]

Yeah I should have mentioned that I am using a 7.1 setup running all B&W 7 series speakers which are 8 ohms. I did not bridge the SC-07 like you did so maybe that makes a difference in sound, I don't know, I'm not an expert by any means. I was just a little disappointed how my speakers sounded with the 4308CI so I got rid of it.

As far as the Emotiva gear, I was going to get the 7 channel amp and the preamp but it seems like the new preamp has been promised for months and has not been release as far as I know.

Actually you can't bridge the Pioneer or any receiver for that matter. It will allow you to bi-amp which is much different than bridging.

I think the new Emo processor is coming out in Feb or March.

You're fine with the Pio and 8 ohm B&W speakers.

 

[allargon]

what do you lose if the Pioneer SC 07 doesn't do HDMI video processing? does this matter if all i really watch is HD TV, DVD and Blu Ray? my tv is 1080p? Does this mean the picture isn't as good? Can it just pass through the video of the HD cable box, blu ray player and TV? Can someone explain?

Those of us with Mitsubishi DLP displays and satellite service need either a AVR with good scaling or an external VP. Both Dish and Direct have horrible SD quality. Multichannel set top boxes (cable, sat, IPTV) are the world's worst upscalers. The Reon, Marvell and Anchor Bay chipsets can do wonders with less than perfect SD. The Faroudja chipsets? I'm not too impressed with the variants I've tried.

Gene, why did you give this receiver 3 marks (instead of 1 or 2) for video processing if you felt it wasn't up to snuff?

 

[gene]

Gene, why did you give this receiver 3 marks (instead of 1 or 2) for video processing if you felt it wasn't up to snuff?

Probably b/c I was being a bit over generous due to the holidays Since it does processing for Component video and doesn't mess up HDMI, I gave it a 3 which is an average rating.

Besides I don't think the owners of this receiver at AVS could handle any added negativity to my review as many of them were miffed that I did full bandwidth tests on this receiver into 4 ohm loads like I do with all receivers and amps that I test

 

[Gov]

Besides I don't think the owners of this receiver at AVS could handle any added negativity to my review as many of them were miffed that I did full bandwidth tests on this receiver into 4 ohm loads like I do with all receivers and amps that I test

I hope you are joking about this Gene. That thread over at AVS has been nothing but informative and professional to say the least. One of the few that has been free of personal attacks and insults.
Even though a lot of people there disagree with you (and still do) they (like I) appreciate your review and your posts there.
What I did not agree with is how you announced your last post on that thread and said you were done with it. Why not continue to defend your review? You never got any personal attacks or insults.

 

[bandphan]

im pretty sure he was talking about the fanboys who refuse to listen to any non positive take on their gear Also what i got out of the reveiw is the unit preforms well under realistic conditions but when put thru the gaunlet it had some hicups

 

[gene]

Even though a lot of people there disagree with you (and still do) they (like I) appreciate your review and your posts there.
What I did not agree with is how you announced your last post on that thread and said you were done with it. Why not continue to defend your review? You never got any personal attacks or insults.

I don't need to "defend" my review that has objective measurements done by the most advanced and industry standard Audio Analyzer with a test in accordance to how the FTC has measured amplifiers for the last 30 years. There are people that would like to believe full bandwidth power tests are irrelevant and I'd say more power to them (no pun intended), but there are those that also believe in testing products to their limits and ensuring they are getting an amplifier that can deliver maximum full bandwidth power into low impedance loads. I am not on a quest to change peoples minds. I do however test all amplifiers under the same test conditions and hold the same criteria regardless of amplifier classification. You will see soon a review of a Class D amp that can deliver full power bandwidth into 8, 4 and 2 ohm loads as an example as well as a series of articles on this very topic.

 

[Gov]

Looking forward to it

 

[Sherardp]

I read this review on the SC07, very informative to say the least. However I've owned the SC-07 for some time and I have to say its an exceptional unit. I did side by side comparisons with the Denons and felt they were a little too laid back for my personal tastes. Granted I use external amplication for powering my speakers, however if I were in the market today, I'd buy it or the 05 again. IMHO they are pretty good AVRS and capable of being a pretty darn good pre/pro.

 

[Dan Banquer]

Bandwidth Limiting

I would like to add a bit more fuel to this fire.
Back in the 70's and 80's linear amps were doing some very similar things as the ICE power module unit in question. What was found was this caused slew rate limitations giving what is still known as slewing induced distortion. This was observed on in band impulse response testing. Contrary to some beliefs one does not need a DC to light bandwidth to NOT have slewing induced distrotion but one must have a near flat response to 20 kHz independent of power for the load the amp is designed for.
Too see audio go back in history and make the same mistakes all over again is just a bit disheartening.
d.b.

 

[bradberry11]

Great review. FYI, component video supports up to 720p or 1080i max, so the xBox 360 was simply unable to do that test (of analog 1080p).