Pioneer Atmos Speakers (SP-EFS73/SP-EBS73L/SP-EC73 and SW-E10) Preview

[gene]

We updated our Pioneer Preview article with actual CEDIA demo results courtesy of Steve Munz who is at the show right now!

Pioneer Elite Dolby Atmos Speakers Preview and Demo Results | Audioholics

 

[RichB]

From FilmMixer at AVS:

The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 250 - AVS Forum

Some tidbits from a little birdy (who's on this thread and can chime in if they choose.)

The HRTF on the Dolby Enabled speakers is required to be in the speaker!

And the bass management of 180hz down to the main cabinet/speaker is an AVR function, not internal to the speakers.

Only exception is HTIB implementation.

Which means anyone can use the speakers with any format... If the manufacturer of the AVP/SSP enables such functionality.

It will work with the Yamah's for their DSP programs.

The Denon's, howver, at this time, do not use them as heights. That could be changed.

I think that is pretty big news.

The "Birdy" says HRTF is built into the crossover of an Atmos speaker and not included in the AVR.
That is worth confirming...

EDIT: This seems:

• Good for folks using external processing that permit using those channels.
• Good for Dolby licensing fees.
• Bad folks who want to use their own speakers.
• Bad for future enhancements where the HRTF could be adjusted as described in the Dolby patent.

- Rich

 

[gene]

From FilmMixer at AVS:

The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 250 - AVS Forum




The "Birdy" says HRTF is built into the crossover of an Atmos speaker and not included in the AVR.
That is worth confirming...

EDIT: This seems:

• Good for folks using external processing that permit using those channels.
• Good for Dolby licensing fees.
• Bad folks who want to use their own speakers.
• Bad for future enhancements where the HRTF could be adjusted as described in the Dolby patent.

- Rich

I asked Steve Munz to check with Pioneer and they ambiguously said most of the magic happens at the DSP level. It's a bit of a challenge to do the HRTF with predictable results (especially the boost part) in the analog domain. This may explain why some of the lesser designed Atmos modules are producing non ideal results too.

 

[RichB]

I asked Steve Munz to check with Pioneer and they ambiguously said most of the magic happens at the DSP level. It's a bit of a challenge to do the HRTF with predictable results (especially the boost part) in the analog domain. This may explain why some of the lesser designed Atmos modules are producing non ideal results too.

Putting it in the speaker seems like a bad idea. You lose the ability for adjustments, future enhancements, it costs more and is redundant.

I hope FilmMixer needs a new bird

- Rich

 

[GranteedEV]

...I would love to see (sans price) a TAD Beryllium atmos speaker with a bigger, more directive upfiring unit (maybe a 10" concentric, ~60 degree pattern). I think this would benefit the effect by lowering the omni radiation frequency.

The positive comments on the Pioneer unit have me thinking for sure.

 

[RichB]

More information about filtering.

From the Dolby Patent:

Patent WO2014107714A1 - Virtual height filter for reflected sound rendering using upward firing drivers - Google Patents

[0053] FIG. 3 depicts virtual height filter responses PT with oc=l derived from a directional hearing model based on a database of HRTF responses averaged across a large set of subjects. The black lines 303 represent the filter PT computed over a range of azimuth angles and a range of elevation angles corresponding to reasonable speaker distances and ceiling heights. Looking at these various instances of PT, one first notes that the majority of each filter's variation occurs at higher frequencies, above 4Hz. In addition, each filter exhibits a peak located at roughly 7kHz and a notch at roughly 12kHz. The exact level of the peak and notch vary a few dB between the various responses curves. Given this close agreement in location of peak and notch between the set of responses, it has been found that a single average filter response 302, given by the thick gray line, may serve as a universal height cue filter for most reasonable physical speaker locations and room dimensions. Given this finding, a single filter PT may be designed for a virtual height speaker, and no knowledge of the exact speaker location and room dimensions is required for reasonable performance. For increased performance, however, such knowledge may be utilized to dynamically set the filter PT to one of the particular black curves in FIG. 3, corresponding to the specific speaker location and room dimensions.

[0055] In an alternative embodiment, the virtual height filter pre-processing can take place in the rendering equipment prior to input to a speaker amplifier (i.e., an AV receiver or preamp). FIG. 4B illustrates a virtual height filter incorporated as part of a rendering unit for driving an upward firing driver, under an embodiment. As shown in system 410 of FIG. 4B, Tenderer 412 outputs separate height and direct signals through amp 414 to drive upward firing speakers 418 and direct speakers 417, respectively. A height filter 416 within the Tenderer 412 provides the direct sound compensation through a notch filter (e.g., reference curve 302) for the upward firing speaker 418, as described above with respect to FIG. 4A. This allows the height filter function to be provided for speakers that do not have any built-in virtual height filtering.

So forcing the HRTF in the speaker removes the performance tuning option described in the patents.

- Rich

 

[Steve81]

I asked Steve Munz to check with Pioneer and they ambiguously said most of the magic happens at the DSP level. It's a bit of a challenge to do the HRTF with predictable results (especially the boost part) in the analog domain. This may explain why some of the lesser designed Atmos modules are producing non ideal results too.

For those keeping track of this, I got conflicting information when I asked various parties. The Dolby folks are saying that the HRTF is performed within the loudspeaker, while the guys at the Triad booth basically said the speaker had to meet basic FR and dispersion guidelines among other things, but that Dolby's magic was done by DSP. Andrew Jones' answer was somewhere in the middle. As such, I think Gene or Joel needs to really lay the question to rest.

Meanwhile on the topic of Pioneer, they've got a new Elite soundbar around the corner. The design isn't finalized yet (according to them, it wasn't even supposed to be at the show), but something to look forward to on that end of the market. The bar at the show had a pair of the 4" concentric drivers as seen in the Elite speaker lineup plus another pair of woofers and passive radiators. There's also an outboard sub for added low end.

 

[Ipreferns]

Hate to log in as an owner of the speakers. I know uninformed Babble is so much more fun. On the survey I would of liked to see "yes" as an option instead of "yes as long as non Atmos is offered"
Because these are non Atmos if you just don't hook up the Atmos drivers.

I'v auditioned too many hi-fi systems to list.
I live in Canada, and for the price, the esf73's can't be beat. I'm driving them with a yamaha as801. And for 2200ca pesos (all in). I couldn't be happier.
Similar sq cannot be had in Canada (right now) for less.

Will I ever upgrade? Sure. But it will cost me....Alot.