Paradigm Signature S8 & C5 Speaker Damage -- Advice

[zpoint]

Ugh, your worst nightmare come true. I'm building my home theater room and after years of planning and hard work, it nears completion and now the fun begins! I've been browsing gear for some time now waiting for the opportunity to arrive and late last year I decide to buy the Paradigm Signature S8, C5 and ADP3's as my home theater speaker system. Things turn out even sweeter when I found a seller on Audiogon.com recently that was parting with his V2 setup! This saves me a bundle versus buying the latest V3 speakers...

So it was like Christmas today as I waited at home all day for them to arrive. The Fed-Ex truck arrives and the driver unloads the packages and my heart begins to sink. I notice several large holes in the sides of the boxes, big enough where I can easily look inside. I immediately see damage to several of the drivers. I spent about 20 minutes with the driver going over the packages noting the visible damage and explain that I will be submitting a claim. Both S8 boxes and the C5 center channel box show signs of being laid down on their sides.

Well, the damage was more severe than I thought once I unboxed them. The C5 center channel has a crushed tweeter, dented woofer and a cracked cabinet. The tweeter dome is actually in pieces. Some of the speaker surrounds are dinged up too. One of the S8 speakers has a slightly dented tweeter and tweeter mesh. The other S8 is really messed up. The tweeter is caved in and broken, the driver just below the tweeter has some dents and the cabinet is cracked on both sides of the face. The top also has some light scuff marks.

These speakers where shipped in their original boxes with foam blocks but there are clear signs that the speakers were laid down on their face & sides. The C5 box is actually partially caved in to the point where it's obvious that the drivers came into direct contact with the sides. Most of the foam shows signs of rips and heavy impressions from the drivers.

I have already started the claims process with Fed-Ex and I'm hoping that this is resolved to my satisfaction. Considering that two of the cabinets are damaged, I think repairs are out of the question not to mention that all of the tweeters need to be replaced. The one S8 only has some light tweeter damage which I could deal with just a replacement tweeter but on the other hand how would I ever get another S8 V2?? In my mind a single S8 V2 would be impossible to find. I'm also a little leery that even if I did find one, it would not be a "matched" set, if that makes any sense.

So I'm here doing a little venting and hoping for advice as I begin the claims process. These speakers were fully insured, I noted damage to the driver before taking delivery and supporting value documentation should not be a problem. I'm thinking the two cracked cabinets are a write-off, the one slightly damaged S8 has me concerned for the above reason as what good is a single S8? Should I just accept it if I don't get fully reimbursed for both S8's? How would I show their value as a pair only? Should I even worry in that the claims person will know this?

FYI, the pair of ADP3's survived and have no damage.

I would attach images but as I am a new member, I cannot do so until I post 5 times. Maybe by the middle of this thread I will be there and I'll add the images.

 

[KEW]

Bummer. That sounds worse than any shipping damage cases I've heard of.

The best advice/support/commiseration I can give is contained in these two posts:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44954&page=2

I have a shipping damage account at post #9 of this thread:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63911&highlight=soundstage

I do believe most sellers on Audiogon are guys like you and I who like changing/upgrading equipment periodically. They are probably almost as upset over this damage as you are.

One last comment for the future is book shelf speakers ship pretty consistently without damage, but tower speakers (because of weight and long, thin profile) are pretty prone to shipping damage. IIRC, Warpdrv bought his Paradigm S-2's via Audiogon (shipped), while he picked up his S-8's from a local retailer.

Good luck!

 

[zpoint]

As you noted, book shelf speakers fare well. My ADP3's came through without a scratch. Much lighter package basically packed in a cube. The C5 & S8's had to have been dropped pretty hard and/or fallen face first in order to do the damage.

In hindsight, Fed-Ex didn't give the markings on the speaker boxes a second glance, especially the ones indicating that the packages should be kept upright. Ironically the seller and I discussed this before shipping and chose Fed-Ex over UPS due to past damage experiences.

I did read the threads you quoted before I posted and noticed the same damage to my foam packing. Mine is quite extreme with missing chunks and repeated indentations from the top of the speakers. The top of one of the S8's actually burst through the upper face of one of the boxes from being dropped which probably cracked the cabinet. Your above post reference also made me stop and think about what would happen if I was only reimbursed for one S8. At this point getting my money back for all three is my wish, worse case I only get repair costs for one S8 and full coverage for the other & C5.

 

[zpoint]

One other thing. Putting floor speakers & towers on a pallet for shipping is the best way to go. I was considering asking the seller to do this and I know this would have turned out much better. Freight shipping can be a pain on the other hand but if I ever consider buying anything this heavy/expensive again, I will probably require it.

 

[jostenmeat]

One other thing. Putting floor speakers & towers on a pallet for shipping is the best way to go. I was considering asking the seller to do this and I know this would have turned out much better. Freight shipping can be a pain on the other hand but if I ever consider buying anything this heavy/expensive again, I will probably require it.

Post just a few times, some jibberish, here to get post count up.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49318

Freight is no guarantee either, as you can see with my last visit to the freight center to pick up my subwoofer kit. It was luckily fine, but it looks like a forklift ran straight into it.

I have had damaged goods from every carrier, but unlike most people, I get fewer incidents per packages received with UPS. I have worse luck with FedEx, but no, none of them are very reliable.

As for the "3rd" wheel of a speaker tower, it's funny because I have been precisely looking for one for a new center speaker, for my future AT screen setup. If you have a smaller flat panel, consider doing the same, by keeping the good tower, and adding another pair. If you have a PJ setup, consider AT. Seymour DIY fabric is very, very affordable.

Yes it will look funny to some, and many people will ask you when they visit, but it is undoubtedly absolutely the best setup you can actually do. Best acoustical match, typically better power handling, typically better horiz dispersion, typically better dialogue intelligibility, and typically better panning with even height of drivers.

You'll probably think I'm crazy, but I actually willingly bought a pair, with one speaker being decimated. Well, I guess I'm not crazy because I just wanted one more tower, and this purchase saves me some coin. I'm in the middle of a project in fixing it up. Here's the thread:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68668

 

[zpoint]

Thanks for the tip! Here are the pictures:

S8 #1 Damage: (notice the top of the box & how the speaker burst through from being dropped face first)

 

[zpoint]

S8 #2 Damage: (This one faired much better but it too has a flatten tweeter grill & tweeter. Foam pad shows signs of impact & light circular tweeter impression)

 

[zpoint]

C5 Damage: (The side of the box pictured was the front of the speaker. This side was compressed several inches inward hitting the drivers. The big hole was directly in front of the damaged mid-range)

 

[KEW]

Man, that is just sickening - seeing those magnificent drivers beat up like that!

 

[JerryLove]

I could do something useful with those. Let me know if you want to part with them (in part or whole) on the cheap-or-free after you get re-embursed.

As to the tweeter: you have a grill over a dome over a driver. Pull the grill and check the state of the Be dome. That's the expensive part.

 

[dapack69]

That is what I call dreadful. Looks like a Greek tradigy.

 

[GO-NAD!]

That kind of damage is beyond a simple "oops". It really passes into the realm of careless neglect. There is no excuse for such damage and I don't understand how it can happen. Do the companies place unrealistic expectations on staff, so that they have to rush the loading of shipments? Do the staff just not care? Are they stoned and/or drunk?

It's sad to see those speakers in such a state.

 

[Rickster71]

Sorry for your situation, hope it all works out. It's hard to see such nice speakers damaged.

I worked for UPS one year while in college. It was in preparation for their busy holiday / Xmas season, that starts in late August.
We were expected to move a box per second when unloading the large delivery trailers.
Sometimes the built-in rolling conveyor was broken or missing, so boxes had to be thrown from one guy to the next.

The golden rule of shipping is to double box and not reuse shipping foam; it's made to absorb only a limited number of impacts.

IMHO: The S8's are over 100lbs when shipped. I'll bet that in the rush they were rolled end for end just to get them on the rollers and to the sorting table.
And/or the person struggled to get them down off the sorting conveyor and into the delivery truck.

 

[KEW]

We see how well UPS's own Caution Heavy Fragile Over 70lbs. sticker works!

 

[titaniumhead]

For what its worth, last year I had two S6 v2 shipped to me Via Fed-Ex with both tweeters smashed in way worse than yours, completely concave. The big problem was there was no visible damage on the outside of the box. The inside foam had visable dents from the tweeters but it still seemed like a longshot that both could have the exact same damage in separate boxes with no visible damage. Long story short, seller filed claim, fed-ex contacted me,I purchased tweeters from paradigm, sent in reciept and was reimbursed full amount. I really thought I was going to have to put up a fight but it was pretty painless.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Damn, so I guess both UPS and FedEx suck equally???

I guess it's a toss up, bun intended.

 

[zpoint]

Titainiumhead: That's encouraging to hear! Thankfully I had the delivery guy note the visible damage on the outside and upon closer inspection to the packaging, there are definite signs of mis-handling. If there wasn't package damage, I would be more concerned so it's good to hear that even a modest claim was reinbursed. I am going to get an itemized list of repair costs and if it was just the drivers, I would be happy to get reimbursed and replace them myself. The cabinets are what I'm more concerned about. My gut tells me that in order to be done right, they would need to be completely refinished which would make it cost prohibitive. I would also feel put off knowing that I popped for top of the line speakers (for me) and had them refinished. Kind of like taking delivery of a nice Ferrari only to bang it up leaving the dealers lot

By the way, my previous (and current) set of speakers are the Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble 4-speaker system that I bought back in 1991. This is a long anticipated (and heart-breaking) upgrade for me.

 

[KEW]

For what its worth, last year I had two S6 v2 shipped to me Via Fed-Ex with both tweeters smashed in way worse than yours, completely concave...
I really thought I was going to have to put up a fight but it was pretty painless.

My claim with UPS was a serious aggravation, but it has been awhile and I know much of my frustration was due to a seller who just wanted me to go away and was slow to assist on his end of pursuing the claim - only to find he did not insure the shipment, so insurance was only $100 of the total (~$700) anyway. That was the kicker that pissed me off!

Does anyone have experiences filing claims with both FedEx and UPS?
I'm wondering if one is easier to deal with.

 

[oppman99]

I could do something useful with those. Let me know if you want to part with them (in part or whole) on the cheap-or-free after you get re-embursed.

Jerry,

I have a pair of of damaged midrange drivers from some S8's. The cones separated from the phase plug and one is punctured. If you pay to have them shipped, they're yours. Just send me a PM.

 

[Warpdrv]

Wow, so sorry for your damage, hope it can be resolved quickly by the shipping company...

Just for future sake of anyone buying gear online off audiogon.... I bought a C5 .v2 and S2's .v2 for my system. The S2's were no issue, but I was very concerned about the heavy C5.... the seller was quite non compliant, I asked for pictures of the boxes before shipping or I would not buy, and also that the invoice sent stated "INSURED SHIPPING" for what the value of the speaker sale.

We went back and forth multiple times, as he would not put this into words on the invoice. I told him finally I was not interested anymore, and low and behold the invoice was rewritten with these words included.

Its bad enough that the seller is going to be sketchy, now you have to deal with the shipping company - be it, FED EX or UPS or whomever.

Expensive products such as these should be pallet shipped, strapped to the pallet as one so they can't get away from each other. Now this doesn't eliminate the stray forklift fork from the crazy driver of said equipment.....