Outdoor speakers

[itawad]

Dear Experts;

I do have an outdoor system:
1. Sony STR 100 (stereo receiver, 50w per channel) which I added to a BT dongle.
2. Speaker selector: 4 channels
3. Two rock and two polk bookshelves, each with volume control wired with 14G wires.

I have been using this system for years with no issues. (The advice I got from experts in this group nearly 12 yrs ago ).

This year, I decided to upgrade the amp to Sony STR 190 with 100w Per channel with built in BT.
I encountered a problem that I cant get the volume up in my backyard as each time I set the volume on the Amp and then use the phone, somehow the amp drops the volume again. I had to return the amp and use my old one again.

Q: what is the reason for this ?
2ndly; ANy suggestions for amps for outdoor use ?
3rd: How can I add an outdoor sub to the whole system?

Thank you in advance
Imad

 

[lovinthehd]

How does a BT dongle have 50w per channel?

 

[itawad]

How does a BT dongle have 50w per channel?

Sorry, the receiver is 50 w per channel

 

[highfigh]

Dear Experts;

I do have an outdoor system:
1. Sony STR 100 (stereo receiver, 50w per channel) which I added to a BT dongle.
2. Speaker selector: 4 channels
3. Two rock and two polk bookshelves, each with volume control wired with 14G wires.

I have been using this system for years with no issues. (The advice I got from experts in this group nearly 12 yrs ago ).

This year, I decided to upgrade the amp to Sony STR 190 with 100w Per channel with built in BT.
I encountered a problem that I cant get the volume up in my backyard as each time I set the volume on the Amp and then use the phone, somehow the amp drops the volume again. I had to return the amp and use my old one again.

Q: what is the reason for this ?
2ndly; ANy suggestions for amps for outdoor use ?
3rd: How can I add an outdoor sub to the whole system?

Thank you in advance
Imad

Show a diagram of how you connected the 100W amplifier to the STR-100. Is that the full model number, or is it the STR-DH100? Complete information is needed.

Neither of these receivers has a sub output- you could buy a high to low level adapter, but you could probably find a receiver that has what you need for not much more.

 

[itawad]

Thank you Highfigh;
The STR 100 https://www.crutchfield.com/S-ySFsOrNiCGW/p_158STDH100/Sony-STR-DH100.html is the amp used for many years and few years ago I bought for it BT dongle and it poweres the 3 speakers very well.

I did the upgrade to https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/av-receivers/str-dh190 but the sound was not lound enough despite the power is double. The STR 190 has a built in BT . I tried to upload a diagram but the server telling me its too large, but its very straightforward as described up.

Please give me models of suggestions to use instead
Appreciated
imad

 

[GuyInLA]

Recalling a previous thread about some problems with wireless sources, IIRC the original poster seemed to be conflating BT and airplay which caused a bit of extra confusion because the two of them operate differently and have different limitations (like a lowering of volume and a limit to the maximum you can raise an airplay target to from a wireless device). Understanding that you added a BT receiver to your older unit, are we actually discussing BT for this new unit or might could be possibly be grouping all wireless communication under a BT moniker?

In my case, if using Airplay, there is a limit on how loud I can set the volume of my system from my phone. If I want it to play louder, I either have to use the AVR app directly or adjust the volume control on the unit physically. If I do this and then have to lower the volume at all (let's say a program or playlist isn't normalized) and then I want to go back up in volume (using the phone buttons or volume slider in a music app) I can not without using the native AVR app or physically adjusting the volume.

While it can be inconvenient, I would imagine it has saved a few pieces of equipment by limiting haphazard volume adjustments, especially when there might be a delay in wireless signaling and someone finds their equipment went a little higher than it should.

I suppose also that this same limitation could be instituted on the BT side as well as Airplay. At least when using wifi / Airplay I can use the native app to increase the volume beyond the airplay max. That would be a limitation of using the standard BT protocol, that the only alternative is the physical knob on the unit.

For a test you could also switch to using Airplay (if you have Apple source device) and see if you notice any difference.

 

[Eppie]

You may find this a challenge within your budget. According to Crutchfield, the STR-DH100 has 90W per channel, not 50W (some sites quote 100W), so the 190 has basically the same power as your existing receiver. You need to double your power for a 3dB increase in SPL, so you need to be looking at amplifiers in the 150W to 200W range to gain any significant increase in volume. You'll note that the majority of receivers and integrated amps have around 100W per channel and to go to the next level in power is a significant jump in price. A more economical approach might be either a separate pre-amp and amplifier, or a receiver / integrated amp with pre-amp outputs that you could connect to separate amp. You could then look at the used market for a Crown amp or something similar that is good at handling low impedance loads for you multi-speaker setup. I don't think I would recommend one of the cheaper Fosi class-D amps in this case. The 300W rating on Amazon is peak power and it only translates to about 80 or 90W continuous, which matches what you currently have.

 

[highfigh]

Thank you Highfigh;
The STR 100 https://www.crutchfield.com/S-ySFsOrNiCGW/p_158STDH100/Sony-STR-DH100.html is the amp used for many years and few years ago I bought for it BT dongle and it poweres the 3 speakers very well.

I did the upgrade to https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/av-receivers/str-dh190 but the sound was not lound enough despite the power is double. The STR 190 has a built in BT . I tried to upload a diagram but the server telling me its too large, but its very straightforward as described up.

Please give me models of suggestions to use instead
Appreciated
imad

Try using the dongle with the STR-DH190. It may be that the output of the dongle is higher than the BT in the 190.

The extra 50W won't make it much louder even on the best day, but the DH100 has a record out that can be used for sending the signal to the DH190's BD (BluRay) input, then you would have one set of speakers receiving power from each receiver and THAT will make a difference. It would also allow balancing the power to the speakers easier.

 

[itawad]

Try using the dongle with the STR-DH190. It may be that the output of the dongle is higher than the BT in the 190.

The extra 50W won't make it much louder even on the best day, but the DH100 has a record out that can be used for sending the signal to the DH190's BD (BluRay) input, then you would have one set of speakers receiving power from each receiver and THAT will make a difference. It would also allow balancing the power to the speakers easier.

unfortunately the dongle wont fit on the new receiver!

 

[GuyInLA]

Please correct me if I am missing something, but in the original post, it was stated that the primary issue was that when the volume was set, it was affected (lowered) by using the phone. I assumed from this post that the overall volume of the system outside was adequate (as you adjusted on the 190) but that when you "use the phone" the system volume drops.

If this is still an issue to consider, can you explain in more detail this part of the issue? When you say "use the phone" are you describing a phone call, adjusting music and also volume? I would be curious if you started to play music from your phone to your system and then adjusted the volume on the 190 directly, and then use your phone to advance from track to track, would the volume still decrease (making sure that you never press any volume button, slider, or control on your phone. It seems to me this could give some guidance on whether this would really be a function of a BT dongle.

 

[lovinthehd]

unfortunately the dongle wont fit on the new receiver!

What input did you use on the old receiver? How is the new receiver so different?

 

[itawad]

Please correct me if I am missing something, but in the original post, it was stated that the primary issue was that when the volume was set, it was affected (lowered) by using the phone. I assumed from this post that the overall volume of the system outside was adequate (as you adjusted on the 190) but that when you "use the phone" the system volume drops.

If this is still an issue to consider, can you explain in more detail this part of the issue? When you say "use the phone" are you describing a phone call, adjusting music and also volume? I would be curious if you started to play music from your phone to your system and then adjusted the volume on the 190 directly, and then use your phone to advance from track to track, would the volume still decrease (making sure that you never press any volume button, slider, or control on your phone. It seems to me this could give some guidance on whether this would really be a function of a BT dongle.

Let me clarify it more

With the old system: you set volume lets say at 50, then the phone via BT will control the set volume up and down without affecting the receiver

The new STR 190: you set the volume at 50: The phone via BT somehow affect the receiver volume and you end up going back and forth trying to crank up the receiver volume up, but still the problem happens again that phone tend to bring the volume down.
Maybe I need an amp attached to the receiver and the phone control only the the amp? I dont know

 

[GuyInLA]

Let me clarify it more

With the old system: you set volume lets say at 50, then the phone via BT will control the set volume up and down without affecting the receiver

The new STR 190: you set the volume at 50: The phone via BT somehow affect the receiver volume and you end up going back and forth trying to crank up the receiver volume up, but still the problem happens again that phone tend to bring the volume down.
Maybe I need an amp attached to the receiver and the phone control only the the amp? I dont know

With this new setup, once you set the volume on the 190, if you do not adjust the volume from the phone - but only do things like skip to the next track, does the volume still change on the 190?

This would be similar to how AIRPLAY is working on my Marantz and Denon units (I don't use BT with these) and in that case, makes me think it is a programmed limited to protect the unit from accidentally going to high using the phone buttons. On my unit if I set the volume and then lower the volume at all (using the phone) and then try to go up in volume (again using the phone) there is a limit the AVR will go up to using the phone button.
The way I discovered this (it didn't always work this way) was to note this upper limit and then use the AVR app on my phone to remotely raise the volume and I would then be able to go louder than I could by using the phone volume buttons.

I know this doesn't specifically address how to overcome this problem though since you are using BT and would not have access to the 190 from an app over BT.

I do see in the manual that it shows
"Adjust the volume of the BT device first. If the volume level is still too low, press [volume icon] +/- to adjust volume level of the receiver." - This seems to suggest to me that the manual is acknowledging in a small way a possible and notable limit to the upper volume when set by a mobile BT device.

 

[highfigh]

With this new setup, once you set the volume on the 190, if you do not adjust the volume from the phone - but only do things like skip to the next track, does the volume still change on the 190?

This would be similar to how AIRPLAY is working on my Marantz and Denon units (I don't use BT with these) and in that case, makes me think it is a programmed limited to protect the unit from accidentally going to high using the phone buttons. On my unit if I set the volume and then lower the volume at all (using the phone) and then try to go up in volume (again using the phone) there is a limit the AVR will go up to using the phone button.
The way I discovered this (it didn't always work this way) was to note this upper limit and then use the AVR app on my phone to remotely raise the volume and I would then be able to go louder than I could by using the phone volume buttons.

I know this doesn't specifically address how to overcome this problem though since you are using BT and would not have access to the 190 from an app over BT.

I do see in the manual that it shows
"Adjust the volume of the BT device first. If the volume level is still too low, press [volume icon] +/- to adjust volume level of the receiver." - This seems to suggest to me that the manual is acknowledging in a small way a possible and notable limit to the upper volume when set by a mobile BT device.

These receivers are stereo and have no ethernet port, so no app is available.

I would also strongly recommend setting a maximum level if the receiver allows, so the phone can't accidentally crank it too high.

I don't think the 190 will replace the 100 WRT providing higher output, but as I posted, the REC Out from one could be connected to an audio input on the other, with the level controlled via the phone once the levels between the 100 and 190 have been balanced. There will be no independent level control in this system.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm curious as to what the differences are in acoustics between a wall mounted speaker and one on the floor or stand mounted. How much does the wall effect the sound? I will be going from floor standing towers to small bookies sitting on wall mounted shelves. The wall is of standard 2x4 stud/sheetrock construction.

Maybe take a look thru some of these threads https://duckduckgo.com/?q=boundary+influence+on+speakers+site:audioholics.com&atb=v419-1&ia=web