Only $11k per channel

[3db]

The Moon Evolution 870A, which measures 18.75”W x 7.5”H x 17.5”D and weighs about 90 pounds, is Simaudio’s largest, most powerful, most expensive stereo amplifier. The 870A delivers its claimed power output with 16 proprietary, ideally matched Moon bipolar output transistors per channel, and has 300,000µF of power-supply capacitance. Since the 870A is dual-mono, its power supply includes two 1.3kVA transformers.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

at $22k for stereo amp, some could say they are reaching for the moon

/snarehit

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All I can say is, "Damn rich people".

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'd rather have one of those than a $22K wristwatch.

 

[Swerd]

$22,000 for a stereo amp ?

I can say with absolute certainty that I would never own such a thing. I wouldn't say no to 22 kilobuck speakers, but never for an amp. I'd probably make a terrible salesman, but I'd be embarrassed to try to sell that to ANYONE.

$11k per channel, even at $36 per watt, its a lot.

For that kind of money, I could buy:

Five Salk SS8s for a full surround sound system.

Six of these avahifi - Fet Valve 600R Amplifier, each of which produces 300 wpc
​

And still have some change left over.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

here are some things I would pay 22k for (spoiler - none of them is an amp)
Porsche 911 Carrera | eBay
DeLorean Gullwing Coupe | eBay
Infiniti G Sports Coupe 2 Door | eBay

 

[Irvrobinson]

here are some things I would pay 22k for (spoiler - none of them is an amp)
Porsche 911 Carrera | eBay
DeLorean Gullwing Coupe | eBay
Infiniti G Sports Coupe 2 Door | eBay

Just make sure that 996 has had the IMS bearing replaced...

 

[Irvrobinson]

I wouldn't say no to 22 kilobuck speakers...

As someone who owns $22K speakers, I'd say they're definitely worth it!

 

[Irvrobinson]

Just make sure that 996 has had the IMS bearing replaced...

Just noticed, it has the LN Engineering thingy in there already.

 

[Pyrrho]

As the old saying says, there is one born every minute...

There is just no way that that thing is worth that price. Some people are just plain stupid, and some of them happen to have a significant amount of money to waste.

For those who feel the need for some justification of that, compare with this:

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpr1

 

[slipperybidness]

As the old saying says, there is one born every minute...

There is just no way that that thing is worth that price. Some people are just plain stupid, and some of them happen to have a significant amount of money to waste.

For those who feel the need for some justification of that, compare with this:

XPR-1 Mono-block Power Amplifier | Emotiva Audio | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amp

Yup. It is a pretty dang nice amp, BUT overpriced. I wonder what the profit margin is on this thing? It must be silly! But, the whole Simaudio/Denon debacle has put Simaudio on my boycott list for good anyway. I guess that saves me another $22K

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, probably has a Denon or Yamaha amp inside.

No, wait, it probably has an ATI amp inside.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yup. It is a pretty dang nice amp, BUT overpriced. I wonder what the profit margin is on this thing? It must be silly! But, the whole Simaudio/Denon debacle has put Simaudio on my boycott list for good anyway. I guess that saves me another $22K

Many components in this price range have dealer margins in the range of 40-50%, which means that the dealer's cost is probably around $11K. In low-volume high-end components like this you can usually get the dealer to split his margin with you, so 20-25% off MSRP is sometimes achievable, especially if you're a previous customer. As for Simaudio, that machined aluminum chassis looks relatively expensive. Perhaps a few hundred bucks each. It looks like there's at least a few hundred dollars worth of power supply and electronics in there. Add in R&D, board costs, hand assembly in Canada, packaging, and shipping, and the fact that volumes are probably pretty low, so fixed costs don't get a big denominator. I'd be very surprised if their gross margin is more than 50%, meaning that out of the $11,000 dealer cost they might be seeing $5500. Maybe. And then there's corporate overhead. I can't imagine what their anticipated volume is, but if they sold more than 100 of these amps per year I'd be shocked. You've got to wonder why anyone builds high-end components.

 

[slipperybidness]

You've got to wonder why anyone builds high-end components.

I agree completely. Rather, high-end components is one thing, but here we are talking about boutique components. I just don't see it, unless I am building it for cost-no-object personal use. Even at cost-no-object, I couldn't imagine going over maybe $3000 for a DIY amp.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I agree completely. Rather, high-end components is one thing, but here we are talking about boutique components. I just don't see it, unless I am building it for cost-no-object personal use. Even at cost-no-object, I couldn't imagine going over maybe $3000 for a DIY amp.

DIY amplifiers in this class get expensive quickly, because onesy-twosy parts costs are ridiculous (those big smoothing caps might cost you $50 each), and if you want professional results, like the DIY speaker guys get, then you'll want multi-layer, two-sided PCBs and a custom chassis just like Moon. It wouldn't surprise me at all if building just one - and only one - of these Moon amps DIY cost over $50K, and that's assuming you could design it yourself. (I suspect chassis and board costs would swamp everything else.) Hmmm... DIY amp or kitchen remodel... I think I'd rather go appliance shopping.

 

[gene]

Yup. It is a pretty dang nice amp, BUT overpriced. I wonder what the profit margin is on this thing? It must be silly! But, the whole Simaudio/Denon debacle has put Simaudio on my boycott list for good anyway. I guess that saves me another $22K

Assuming your referring to the Emotiva XPR-1 as being overpriced, I think you are greatly mistaken. A monoblock of this caliber would easily sell for $5k if it wasn't sold direct and had a fancier nameplate.

 

[3db]

Assuming your referring to the Emotiva XPR-1 as being overpriced, I think you are greatly mistaken. A monoblock of this caliber would easily sell for $5k if it wasn't sold direct and had a fancier nameplate.

I'm sorrry Gene... trying to figure out the relationship between the Emotiva you referenced and the Moon's price being silly.

 

[3db]

Its a gorgeous amp and the build quality is definately there but 22K is way to steep. However, people buy this stuff because they can and want the bragging rights.

 

[slipperybidness]

Assuming your referring to the Emotiva XPR-1 as being overpriced, I think you are greatly mistaken. A monoblock of this caliber would easily sell for $5k if it wasn't sold direct and had a fancier nameplate.

You misunderstood my meaning. The Emo is a great price for the specs!

The Moon on the other hand is over-priced.

 

[slipperybidness]

DIY amplifiers in this class get expensive quickly, because onesy-twosy parts costs are ridiculous (those big smoothing caps might cost you $50 each), and if you want professional results, like the DIY speaker guys get, then you'll want multi-layer, two-sided PCBs and a custom chassis just like Moon. It wouldn't surprise me at all if building just one - and only one - of these Moon amps DIY cost over $50K, and that's assuming you could design it yourself. (I suspect chassis and board costs would swamp everything else.) Hmmm... DIY amp or kitchen remodel... I think I'd rather go appliance shopping.

I'm not suggesting building an exact clone of the 870A.

I'm suggesting building DIY that could match it in PERFORMANCE. I'm not worried about aesthetics, so any $ that would go to that can go out the window. Also, when you go the DIY route, you often re-purpose parts from old electronics and old projects, so that saves $ too (granted, I did say "cost no object" in my first post).

There are many amplifier schematics/plans available, so take that $ out of the equation too.

What I'm saying is that $22K is silly-expensive. I bet a DIY could achieve "as good" performance for 10-20% of the cost of this Moon.

Edit:
On a side note, looking at the Moon site, I see a few interesting items:
*This is a "no overall feedback" topology
*I'm curious as to why they used BJTs on the outputs instead of MOSFETs?
*Output impedance <0.01ohm wowza!
*S/N is "only" 106dB???
*Teflon-insulated wiring--NICE! What a luxury.