Noob help - best options for stereo with Yamaha RX-A3060 AVR

[Deanpm]

Hi all,

I could use some help. I have a new build cinema/music room equipped with B&W speakers (CM10 S2 fronts, CM Center 2 S2, DS3 surrounds and the PV1D sub), a couple of Monitor Audio Ceiling speakers (CT265-FX) all driven by a Yamaha RX-A3060 AVR. I will however be listening to a lot of 2 channel music and am wondering if I should invest in a separate amp to drive the CM10's. I'm looking at the Rotel RB-1590.

I am however completely new to this type of setup so I'm not even sure if it would be possible to set things up so that the Yamaha drove everything except the fronts and the Rotel driving the fronts regardless of how many other channels are being used. Based on what I've read over the past few days, I think I would connect the Rotel to the Yamaha using the Yamaha's FL/FR pre-outs? Is that correct? If so, would I need to adjust volume on both the Yamaha and Rotel or just on the Yamaha?

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated!

Dean

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, just use the pre-outs for an external amp. There is no volume control on the Rotel amp (or most power amps, maybe a gain control on some, but the Rotel lacks). How much does that Rotel cost?

 

[Deanpm]

Yes, just use the pre-outs for an external amp. There is no volume control on the Rotel amp (or most power amps, maybe a gain control on some, but the Rotel lacks). How much does that Rotel cost?

Thank you! All the time spent trawling through posts and looking at the spec sheet and I never noticed this!

The 1590 costs around £2,500 in the UK. On the same subject, would there be any benefit in adding in the Rotel RC-1590 (Stereo Preamp) - http://www.rotel.com/en-gb/product/rc-1590

Dean

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you! All the time spent trawling through posts and looking at the spec sheet and I never noticed this!

The 1590 costs around £2,500 in the UK. On the same subject, would there be any benefit in adding in the Rotel RC-1590 (Stereo Preamp) - http://www.rotel.com/en-gb/product/rc-1590

Dean

No way I'd spend that much on the amp. I'd try one of these and you even get some extra features the Rotel doesn't come with. Probably priced much better . So you need spl levels the 3060 won't deliver cleanly with those speakers?

That preamp won't do anything the 3060 won't do afaik, and a lot less!

 

[Deanpm]

No way I'd spend that much on the amp. I'd try one of these and you even get some extra features the Rotel doesn't come with. Probably priced much better . So you need spl levels the 3060 won't deliver cleanly with those speakers?

That preamp won't do anything the 3060 won't do afaik, and a lot less!

I'll be honest and say that I've barely even had time to test/calibrate the setup with the 3060. I just want to make sure that I've got the equipment to take full and proper advantage of the CM10s for stereo listening. Pure spl will not be a problem (I think) as the cinema room is only 16 x 14.5 x 8.

Dean

 

[lovinthehd]

I'll be honest and say that I've barely even had time to test/calibrate the setup with the 3060. I just want to make sure that I've got the equipment to take full and proper advantage of the CM10s for stereo listening. Pure spl will not be a problem (I think) as the cinema room is only 16 x 14.5 x 8.

Dean

What do you mean by full and proper advantage of your speakers? In a room that size I'd just try the 3060 alone at first....if it is just something you want (an external amp) then go for it, but if you're fine at your usual listening levels...then you're fine. Define, or rather estimate, your spl needs with a calculator perhaps.

 

[Deanpm]

Sound (pun intended) advice sir. I'll live with the setup as it is for a few months first then maybe see if I can trial an external amp to see if there's any discernible difference.

Dean

 

[Andrein]

No way I'd spend that much on the amp. I'd try one of these and you even get some extra features the Rotel doesn't come with. Probably priced much better . So you need spl levels the 3060 won't deliver cleanly with those speakers?

That preamp won't do anything the 3060 won't do afaik, and a lot less!

People are ready to spend more on gadgets in uk. That allows companies to drive prices up. This applies to amps, avrs, mobile phones etc...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The question is do you need an external amp?

In 2CH Stereo mode, the Yamaha should be able to power the towers just fine in most rooms and volume.

If it seems to distort, then you can add the amp.

 

[PENG]

I think I would connect the Rotel to the Yamaha using the Yamaha's FL/FR pre-outs? Is that correct? If so, would I need to adjust volume on both the Yamaha and Rotel or just on the Yamaha?

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated!

Dean

No, as HD alluded to, that is not correct. You should not connect a preamp to the preout of the Yamaha. To drive the FR/FL speakers you need a power amplifier, not a preamplifier such as the Rotel RB-1590

http://www.rotel.com/en-gb/music-systems#stereo-amplifiers

In your relatively small room, as ADTG said, that Yamaha you already have should allow you to get the best out of the CM10 S2 but for peace of mind, please punch in the correct information and let us know the calculated spl (sound pressure level). Then we can tell you if you really need an external power amp or not.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[Deanpm]

No, as HD alluded to, that is not correct. You should not connect a preamp to the preout of the Yamaha. To drive the FR/FL speakers you need a power amplifier, not a preamplifier such as the Rotel RB-1590

http://www.rotel.com/en-gb/music-systems#stereo-amplifiers

In your relatively small room, as ADTG said, that Yamaha you already have should allow you to get the best out of the CM10 S2 but for peace of mind, please punch in the correct information and let us know the calculated spl (sound pressure level). Then we can tell you if you really need an external power amp or not.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Hi Peng,

I think something got mixed up along the way. My original question was about using the RB-1590 power amp with the Yamaha 3060. I did mention the RC-1590 later on but only to ask if there might be any value using it.

The calculated spl at listening position using the Yamaha amp (150w per channel in 2 channel mode) and with 90 dB SPL from the CM10's is 109.

Based on my very limited knowledge, this is more than ample in terms of power but herein lies my problem. Conventional wisdom seems clear on the point of stereo versus multi-channel AV in that an AVR, no matter how good, cannot match a strong 2 channel setup for stereo listening. So this isn't about power - it's about the best stereo sound.

Assuming the above is correct (I'm perfectly happy to be told it's not), if I want to get the best from my CM10's, should I be looking at 2 channel power amps or do I need to consider a completely different approach such as using a dedicated 2 channel amp/pre-amp with HT pass-through to the Yamaha when I want to watch movies?

D.


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[Goliath]

Conventional wisdom seems clear on the point of stereo versus multi-channel AV in that an AVR, no matter how good, cannot match a strong 2 channel setup for stereo listening. So this isn't about power - it's about the best stereo sound.

Conventional audiophile wisdom is that 2 channel amps excel with music while AVR's excel with movies.

This conventional wisdom gets to be wrong! For starters, and this is a very important point, there is zero audibility data supporting the audiophile notion that an AVR is sonically compromised handling 2 channel audio in any way.

The strongly held opinion amongst audiophiles that AVR's sound poor for music are (generally) based on casual sighted tests which are so contaminated by personal bias and other systematic errors that they are useless for reaching any impartial, sonic judgement of audio equipment.

When audiophiles are forced to rely on just their ears, not on their eyes, prior knowledge, mismatched volumes, etc to "hear" it usually leads to some very embarrassing consequences.

Assuming the above is correct (I'm perfectly happy to be told it's not), if I want to get the best from my CM10's, should I be looking at 2 channel power amps or do I need to consider a completely different approach such as using a dedicated 2 channel amp/pre-amp with HT pass-through to the Yamaha when I want to watch movies?

HT pass-through? Have you used the "pure direct" function before? The next question is : what is wrong with the sound quality at the moment?

As others have pointed out, unless your AVR is driven into nonlinear behaviour, adding a bigger, badder amp likely will have no audible benefit. The question is : is your amp audibly distorting while listening to music?

 

[PENG]

The calculated spl at listening position using the Yamaha amp (150w per channel in 2 channel mode) and with 90 dB SPL from the CM10's is 109.

85dB average with 105 dB peak spl will be too loud for most people. If not careful, one may even risk hearing loss listening so loud for prolonged period of time.

Based on my very limited knowledge, this is more than ample in terms of power but herein lies my problem. Conventional wisdom seems clear on the point of stereo versus multi-channel AV in that an AVR, no matter how good, cannot match a strong 2 channel setup for stereo listening. So this isn't about power - it's about the best stereo sound.

In general, you get what you pay for, but due to economy of scale, AVR has some advantages. So at the same price point, there is no guarantee that a two channel amplifier will have better components build in and/or can produce better specs verifiable by measurements. The Rotel pair you are considering costs quite a bit more than the Yamaha AVR, so odds are good that the RB1590 will outperform the RX-A3060 in specs and in measurements, though any such small difference will most likely not result in better sound quality.

Assuming the above is correct (I'm perfectly happy to be told it's not), if I want to get the best from my CM10's, should I be looking at 2 channel power amps or do I need to consider a completely different approach such as using a dedicated 2 channel amp/pre-amp with HT pass-through to the Yamaha when I want to watch movies?

For movie, or live concerts in 7.1, I even an AVRs can do a fine job, and there is no way I can tell a difference between a good AVR and separates that costs much more.

I do own a separate prepro and power amp for my HT system and separate preamps and power amps for my 2 channel stereo systems. I also have a 3rd 2 channel system that is powered by an old Denon AVR that sounds just as good, but obviously the other two systems that are based on separate preamps and power amps have better components in them. Basically the much more expensive separates will likely have better components and build quality, but whether that will translate into better sound quality is highly questionable. Based on bench tests after bench tests, as well as my own experience, I would bet once you get to the flag ship AVR, such as the RX-A3060, you have long past the point of diminishing return. Spending much more money on more expensive separate components would simply get you better components, build quality, reliability, and ownership pride.

 

[Pogre]

Based on bench tests after bench tests, as well as my own experience, I would bet once you get to the flag ship AVR, such as the RX-A3060, you have long past the point of diminishing return.

Completely agree.

Spending much more money on more expensive separate components would simply get you better components, build quality, reliability, and ownership pride.

Not gonna lie, that's why I bought my separate amp. It's a beast and I just like having it. My plan is to make this the one and only amp I'll ever buy, so I went big. If it survives in working order when I croak I'll hand it down to my son. Money well spent, imo.

Does it sound better? I can't tell, but it runs fairly cool and now my receiver only does the surround channels and processing so it runs cooler too. Everything is happy and running cool.

 

[Deanpm]

Peng,

Thank you so much. That was enormously helpful and informative. Very much appreciated.

D.


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[Deanpm]

Completely agree.

Not gonna lie, that's why I bought my separate amp. It's a beast and I just like having it. My plan is to make this the one and only amp I'll ever buy, so I went big. If it survives in working order when I croak I'll hand it down to my son. Money well spent, imo.

Does it sound better? I can't tell, but it runs fairly cool and now my receiver only does the surround channels and processing so it runs cooler too. Everything is happy and running cool.

Interesting points Pogre. Thank you. Heat is currently a bit of an issue for me as my amp is sitting in a rack alongside 3 other amps (for other rooms) and a ton of home automation and computer gear. Food for thought.

D.


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[lovinthehd]

Interesting points Pogre. Thank you. Heat is currently a bit of an issue for me as my amp is sitting in a rack alongside 3 other amps (for other rooms) and a ton of home automation and computer gear. Food for thought.

D.


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Are you using any active cooling?