Newbie Biamping Question

[Big Daddy]

I have a Pioneer VSX-918V Receiver. I've been running lousy little Polk RM-75s and a Polk PSW10 sub in a 5.1 setup.

I'm now upgrading to Infinity Beta 20 L&R. I want either Beta 40s or 50s, but, I can't find any right now, and with the last of the NIB Beta 20s priced at $130 per pair, I couldn't pass them up. I'll also be using the Infinity Beta C360 center (I just bought the last 2 NIB 360s anywhere to be found, as far as I know), Infinity Classia C255ESCH surrounds, and PS212 sub (I'm hoping that I won't need anything larger than the 20s with this sub).

The 918 has "A-B" speaker switching for second room speakers, and the Beta 20s can be biamped. Can I use the "B" speaker leads to biamp the Betas?

Thanks

 

[j_garcia]

No you can't because A and B are the same channel, meaning they are physically both connected together inside the receiver. Biamping off the typical receiver doesn't yeild a benefit anyway.

 

[Big Daddy]

I appreciate your quick reply

So...

1). What is the best way to do this for all 5 speakers (preferably WITH my current receiver)?

2). What are some budget-friendly options for doing this with the receiver I already have? I saw an Onkyo 2 channel amp at Vanns. I'm assuming that would at least work for the fronts.

3). Am I just crazy for thinking I can do this with my bargain-basement equipment?

Thanks

 

[oppman99]

Like J Garcia said, biamping or technically biwiring with just the AVR you have will not do much if anything. I am a fan of separate amplification. A 2 channel amp would boost your mains and allow you AVR to send more power to your remaining three speakers. Do you have a budget in mind? Emotiva is hard to beat for separate amplification especially when you consider the price. Right now the XPA-3 is on sale for $549. You might be able to find a used LPA-7 for around $425 plus shipping. Outlaw also is a good company to look at in terms of bang for your buck. Let us know what you are thinking.

 

[j_garcia]

I just looked that receiver up and it does not appear to have the preamp outputs necessary for supporting an external amp. I think you had to step up to the 101x models to get preamp outs.

 

[Big Daddy]

Thanks oppman99.

I want to have the cleanest sound possible while utilizing as much of my current (and newly purchased) equipment as possible, so as to keep cost to a minimum, keep the system fairly uncomplicated for now, and keep my wife from having a coniption over all the money I'm spending, and all the equipment that she would percieve as "cluttering up" the living room.

 

[Big Daddy]

I can't tell you how bummed I am to hear that j_garcia

Sounds like I'd have to at the very least, get a new receiver if I want to do anything more amplifier-wise.

 

[j_garcia]

I can't tell you how bummed I am to hear that j_garcia

Sounds like I'd have to at the very least, get a new receiver if I want to do anything more amplifier-wise.

Unfortunately, yes. Sorry to be the one to let you know that. There is a way: it is called a line level converter, which would take speaker level and convert it to RCA. I have done this in cars before, but never in a HT application, so I don't know that I'd recommend this method whole heartedly.

You said you *just* bought this gear? Any chance you could return the receiver and exchange it for a 1018/1019?

 

[adwilk]

If you wanted to keep the price down and you were able to swap the receiver with something with preouts, you might look at the Behringer A500. Great amp for the money. You can pick those up for around 160 I believe...

 

[j_garcia]

If you wanted to keep the price down and you were able to swap the receiver with something with preouts, you might look at the Behringer A500. Great amp for the money. You can pick those up for around 160 I believe...

I wouldn't touch one of these amps after WmAx (a supporter of these amps) and others have experienced issues with them recently. It would appear they have some quality issues with those particular amps.

 

[adwilk]

I wouldn't touch one of these amps after WmAx (a supporter of these amps) and others have experienced issues with them recently. It would appear they have some quality issues with those particular amps.

I wasn't aware of a widespread issue... do you care to elaborate? DOA? Thats not good. I've had good luck with one.

 

[lsiberian]

I wouldn't touch one of these amps after WmAx (a supporter of these amps) and others have experienced issues with them recently. It would appear they have some quality issues with those particular amps.

The problem if it occurs is a distortion in a distinct note. I've heard it was caused by heat.

 

[Big Daddy]

Thanks for the helpful replies guys.

What I meant is that I just bought the Infinity speakers, and I'm waiting for them to arrive. I've had the 918 for a little less than a year, and had hoped to keep it in place, because my wife is already going to be a bit...ummm...let's say *tweeked* when the speakers start arriving next week, and a new receiver on top of that may be a bit too much. However, I HAVE had my eye on an Onkyo SR806, and right now Crutchfield has them at $679. It has a few more features than my 918, and I know I could biamp the fronts with that, but, it doesn't seem to have a power outlet for a sub on it's back panel.

All I really want to do is make sure the new speakers sound as crisp and clean as possible. For now, I may just have to see how the little Pioneer handles them, and maybe hope that it will bite the dust soon, so I can justify getting something better.

Now, if I can just find a decent SACD player for cheap...

 

[markw]

It has a few more features than my 918, and I know I could biamp the fronts with that, but, it doesn't seem to have a power outlet for a sub on it's back panel.

You don't want to plug a sub or a power amp into any of those "convenience" AC outlets on the back panel of a receiver. They draw too much current.

You want them plugged directly into the wall.

Now, if I can just find a decent SACD player for cheap.

This is working great for me as both an upscaling DVD player and a SACD/DVD-Audio player: http://www.6ave.com/shop/SearchResults.aspx?kwd=denon 1940

I do hope it's still available on-line...

 

[j_garcia]

Absolutely, DO NOT plug ANYTHING that draws a large amount of current into the outlets of your receiver. CD, DVD player OK but a sub? BIG no-no.

Matt34 had one channel die on his A500, and I believe Chris had the dreaded "static" noise as well.

 

[Big Daddy]

Thanks for the helpful advice markw. I followed the link, and that seems like quite a deal at $65, but, it also said that it's now a "retail store only" item.

I actually have a PS3 that I've been using for this, but, I'd rather have something dedicated to CDs/SACDs, so I don't have to remove my son's latest video game before listening to music. I've been eyeballing the Sony SCD-CE595 SACD player, and I'll likely buy that. However, it bugs me that the only way to turn it on or off, is to get up off my lazy butt, walk over to the player, and push the power button...there is no power button on the remote, nor could I program my Harmony One to turn it on and off. Geez, I'm spoiled these days.

Thanks to both of you for the advice about plugging a sub into the back of the receiver. I did so because of what I read in a review when shopping for my original system. The reviewer said that there is a power outlet on the back of the receiver, which is perfect for plugging up a sub, so it will power up and shut down with the rest of the system. I'll change that arrangement when I get home from work today.

 

[adwilk]

Back to the topic at hand, you're not going to notice a large enough difference by "bi-amping" for it to be worth your money, just upgrading your receiver. If you got into a new receiver with pre-outs and external amps MAYBE and thats a big maybe. Bi-amping does nothing, but adding additional wattage (more than double) in most cases is what will improve overall performance. If you set your speakers to small and cross them over properly with your sub theres a good chance you'll never touch the limits of your receiver anyways. I don't know where the impedance dips to on those infinities, but I've had the Alphas before and they screamed on a little 20 watt t-amp.

Hook em up, and if there's something missing, then address it. Don't anticipate a potential problem though. I think you're going to be just fine as is.

 

[Big Daddy]

Hook em up, and if there's something missing, then address it. Don't anticipate a potential problem though. I think you're going to be just fine as is.

Thanks. I've been thinking the same thing today. After all, I'm pretty new to this...It's not like a have a trained ear which would pick up every subtle difference between biamped and non-biamped speakers in everyday playback situations. The improvement over the tiny Polks I have right now, will likely be so dramatic that I'll be thrilled for at least a year or two.

For the money that I'm willing to spend on a new receiver right now, I'm not seeing many units that offer enough to make me want to switch from my basic Pioneer. If I get seriously obsessed with the audiophile thing, I'll make the jump up to a MUCH better, and more expensive system.

...the problem is that I have a natural tendancy to get pretty obsessive about such things. LOL

 

[markw]

Where did you read this review.

Thanks to both of you for the advice about plugging a sub into the back of the receiver. I did so because of what I read in a review when shopping for my original system. The reviewer said that there is a power outlet on the back of the receiver, which is perfect for plugging up a sub, so it will power up and shut down with the rest of the system.

I would hope that a "professional reviewer" would know his subject matter better than to make a statement like that.

Telling us where you read this would be doing a public service so we can take what he says with a grain of salt. ....make that a salt lick of salt.

 

[Big Daddy]

Sorry, I wish I could remember where I read it, or even which receiver the review was for. I read it online about a year ago eek: what?!?!? you mean that I can't believe everything I read online??? This news really changes my beliefs about that Oregon woman's account of being abducted by aliens while giving birth to Bigfoot's love child). Kidding aside, All I remember is that it was a professional reviewer (maybe cnet or someplace like that), and when I saw the outlet on the back of the 918 in Best Buy, that reviewer's words clicked in my mind.