New Receiver recommendations

[TMelvold]

I just moved into a new house and FINALLY have a real man cave to enjoy. I have a Klipsch Synergy 3 system (F-3,C-3,S-3) and the matching 12" Klipsch Subwoofer. I currently have a Yamaha HTR-5960 receiver on it and want to replace that receiver. I have a new Sony XBR-65x900w TV hooked up to this system.

I have a 5.1 system with no plans to add channels. I think the speakers can handle 150w per channel. I need at least 5-6 HDMI inputs, 1 optical input, composite input (old Nintendo) that up-converts to HDMI. I don't need a lot of extra bells and whistles as I have Apple TV and will do most of my streaming. The amplifier MATTERS a lot to me and I know that is where most companies cut corners. I would love to bi-amp (currently bi-wiring) my front speakers for better sound - if possible.

My price range is somewhere around $500-$1000 or so. What do you recommend?

 

[lovinthehd]

Do you really need to provide 150w/ch just because your speakers have a rating for it (probably just a melting point than anything audibly useful)? Takes a doubling of power to gain merely 3db spl, so the difference between a 100w/ch avr and a 150w/ch avr isn't all that great. If you truly need additional power then an avr with pre-outs for external amplification options makes sense, plus your need for hdmi etc. There have been some great deals on the Denon 4300 lately in the $750-800 range, but even the 3300 would be a good choice IMO and that has been more in the $600-650 range.

ps have no idea about the composite upscaling specifics, check the manual.

 

[-Jim-]

Welcome to the Forum. Can you advise the dimensions (WxLxH) and shape of the man cave?

What amount of your time will be listening to music, and how much for movies, or concerts with Dolby HD or DTS Master HD.

Your Klipsch speakers are very sensitive (97dB @ 2.83 volts/1 meter) and don't need a lot of power to drive them, so your Yamaha ~115 watt / channel HTR-5960 should be more than adequate. Are they loud enough for you with the 5960 driving them? Do you usually turn it up to it's max?

An on line calculator indicates with just the F-3s running in stereo at 115 watts, you'd get in excess of 111 dB at a typical listening distance of 10 Feet. (That's over 120 dB at a little over 3 feet!) A 150 watt amp would only add about 1 dB over what is available at 115 Watts. At these volume levels hearing damage will occur with long exposures.

Most here (and me included) think Bi-Amping offers little to no benefit, but if it floats your boat, it only adds more cost to the Receiver, and reduces the available options. I'd save the $$ and add a second sub.

 

[-Jim-]

Do you really need to provide 150w/ch just because your speakers have a rating for it (probably just a melting point than anything audibly useful)? Takes a doubling of power to gain merely 3db spl, so the difference between a 100w/ch avr and a 150w/ch avr isn't all that great. If you truly need additional power then an avr with pre-outs for external amplification options makes sense, plus your need for hdmi etc. There have been some great deals on the Denon 4300 lately in the $750-800 range, but even the 3300 would be a good choice IMO and that has been more in the $600-650 range.

ps have no idea about the composite upscaling specifics, check the manual.

lovinthehd,

You had my thoughts exactly. The Denon AVR-X4300H Receiver will bi-amp and fits the budget. It also up-converts composite video. He could even step back and get a 4200 at Accessories4Less for $750.

 

[lovinthehd]

lovinthehd,

You had my thoughts exactly. The Denon AVR-X4300H Receiver will bi-amp and fits the budget. It also up-converts composite video. He could even step back and get a 4200 at Accessories4Less for $750.

Except I forgot to add that passive bi-amping with an avr is just....worthless. IMO.

The 4300 otoh does have the Audyssey app potential, and I believe a better Heos setup as well.

 

[-Jim-]

I agree, if he can find a new Denon 4300 in the $750-800 range, that's the way to go.

 

[TMelvold]

Thank you for the replies. I sit about 10 feet from the speakers but the overall room is much bigger - about 20x20. I agree that I don't need 150w per channel. What I was trying to express is that i want to feel the power and clarity of the speakers when playing movies and music. I'm about 50/50 on the use of both. I hooked up an old 1980's Pioneer 2 channel power amp and used the pre-out on the current Yamaha just to drive the front speakers. What a difference that made in "opening up the speakers"! I was hoping to get a similar feeling with just one receiver and not having to spend the extra $$$ on a power amp.(The old Pioneer amp only lasted a year or two before it died).

 

[PENG]

Thank you for the replies. I sit about 10 feet from the speakers but the overall room is much bigger - about 20x20. I agree that I don't need 150w per channel. What I was trying to express is that i want to feel the power and clarity of the speakers when playing movies and music. I'm about 50/50 on the use of both. I hooked up an old 1980's Pioneer 2 channel power amp and used the pre-out on the current Yamaha just to drive the front speakers. What a difference that made in "opening up the speakers"! I was hoping to get a similar feeling with just one receiver and not having to spend the extra $$$ on a power amp.(The old Pioneer amp only lasted a year or two before it died).

I have no idea what you meant by "opening up the speakers". Those speakers don't near much more than 100W to damage hearings sitting 10 ft from them. I am quite sure any mid range Yamaha or Denon AVR such as the suggested X4300H will have no trouble driving them and adding a 200 to 300W per channel amp won't make make them sound better except for the Placebo effects.

 

[Pogre]

Thank you for the replies. I sit about 10 feet from the speakers but the overall room is much bigger - about 20x20. I agree that I don't need 150w per channel. What I was trying to express is that i want to feel the power and clarity of the speakers when playing movies and music. I'm about 50/50 on the use of both. I hooked up an old 1980's Pioneer 2 channel power amp and used the pre-out on the current Yamaha just to drive the front speakers. What a difference that made in "opening up the speakers"! I was hoping to get a similar feeling with just one receiver and not having to spend the extra $$$ on a power amp.(The old Pioneer amp only lasted a year or two before it died).

I agree with Jim. Take the money you have budgeted for an avr and get another subwoofer. You have a large room and I wouldn't go with anything less than 2 subwoofers. Or even better yet, sell that Klipsch sub and get a couple from a good subwoofer company. Klipsch is known for speakers. Subs, not so much.

I think you'll be shocked at how much just adding another (or better) sub(s) to the mix can improve the sound quality over your entire system. Good Subwoofage is very often underrated.

 

[TMelvold]

What I meant by "opening up" was to have the cleanest sound at comfortable volume levels with the occasional ability to turn it up. I heard that more power is better quality of sound at mid levels because the receiver doesn't have to work as hard.

 

[Pogre]

What I meant by "opening up" was to have the cleanest sound at comfortable volume levels with the occasional ability to turn it up. I heard that more power is better quality of sound at mid levels because the receiver doesn't have to work as hard.

That's a misconception. I hear that a lot in car audio circles as well. Any competently built amplifier should sound the same as long as both are used within their operating specs. The goal is to have a flat response over the entire bandwidth. Anything else would probably be a defect.

EQ controls and room correction software are where differences lie with affecting the sound between receivers. If it's gets loud enough for you and there's no distortion another amplifier won't make any difference. New speakers (or subs) however, will have far more impact on your sound quality.

 

[PENG]

What I meant by "opening up" was to have the cleanest sound at comfortable volume levels with the occasional ability to turn it up. I heard that more power is better quality of sound at mid levels because the receiver doesn't have to work as hard.

Most of the time your receiver should be outputting less than 1 watt per channel, that's not hard at all. It is during the momentary peaks, such as explosion, fighting, car racing scenes that the receiver has to work hard. During those moments, the receiver will get help from subwoofer(s) to some extents. It is better to have more power than you need, but if the power just sit there as reserve, it won't help improve sound quality. What you heard are mostly hearsay from the internet. Lots of us know the effects of hearsay and Placebo very well, as we've there before.

 

[Hi Ho]

Klipsch speakers are highly efficient. You need not worry about the power output of your receiver. There are two things that will improve the sound of your system.

1. Two high quality subs will make a big difference. With a room that size it's the bass that suffers if you don't have big enough subs and that single 12" Klipsch is not going to cut it.

2. A receiver with high quality room correction like Audyssey MuliQ-XT32 will make a difference. Audyssey can really help even out the low frequencies and make your bass smoother.

Personally I would get subs first. That will have a bigger impact on your overall experience. When you upgrade the AVR down the road it will be icing on the cake.

 

[-Jim-]

Well, my take is to get into the AVR first, and a second Sub later.

His present AVR won't handle two Subs, and can't handle Dolby HD or DTS Master HD. Blu Ray disks really shine with not only better video than DVDs, but superb lossless audio. TMelvold listens music half the time, and if he was to get into Concerts on Blu Ray, he will be impressed. The need for really solid low frequency sound that a second Sub would add is really not for music, but rather for effects like explosions and such in newer movies.

But what the heck, buy the Denon AVR-X4300H Receiver on sale for $750 and a new Sub... It's only money...

 

[tiggere]

My x4300h is being shipped as we speak...was $749 at IQ Home Entertainment...they didnt have it showing on their website so I called and was told they had a few left...so if thats the route you want to go I would try calling them...

 

[-Jim-]

Here's the thread where they are going at $725 delivered in the USA:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/denon-x4300h-on-sale-for-799.108263/page-2#post-1202732