New Ohm Walsh Speakers

[GranteedEV]

The live instruments recording is nearfield, but the recorded sound / replayed once sound being recorded is farfield. ...the thing is, you're looking at it from a professional / recording and that's fine but a lot of us look at it from a "sitting on our everyday living rooms" perspective. So to us accurate speakers aren't just speakers that sound their best in unrealistic rooms, but speakers that "load" realistic rooms in such a manner that the room is actually not introducing enough to the sound to be a negative factor. In some cases the room is actually introducing positives (reflected sound from different directions) that help recreate live venues.

 

[GranteedEV]

1) It assumes its "unidirectional vs omnipolar" when, in fact, no speaker is completely either.

This is the closest i've seen to Unidirectional:

Semi Cardioid + waveguide (not quite unipolar but as close as it gets)

Of course if you factor in the vertical then all goes out the window most likely.

 

[bikdav]

I was afraid of that. So do we just throw the measurements out the window?

Just go by ear?

Not I.

Not for me.

That's a good question. I do take the measured spec into consideration. But, my ears are the final judge.

 

[3db]

Measuring FR from omnipolar speakers isn't rocket surgery. It's the same as non-omni-polars... just the horizontal "off axis" should be identical to "on axis" as there's no axis.

Obviously: room interactions will be different, mostly in HF; but that's different for every speaker as well.

If it ain't rocket science liek you say, why do they keep f?cking up the measurements for omni directional speakers? Clearly, there's more to it which points out one of two possibilities, the reviewers are clueless or they are too lazy to measure the speakers properly. Either way, I wouldn't trust measurements wirtten by any audio mag on omnis with the sole exception of maybe stereophile.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

OMG ...Get a grip!!! All is not lost. What has to be done is to devise a test procedure that accurately measures frequency response for omni directional speakers. Until one is derived, trust your ears. If your ears like what you hear would you not buy them if money wasn't a factor?

Nope.

Will only buy if they sound great and measure great. No exceptions.

 

[swspiers]

Nope.

Will only buy if they sound great and measure great. No exceptions.

What, for you, are the critical measurements? What compromises are you willing to make?

for me, they have to be accurate. But the most important aspect, for any speaker that I get, is the soundstage and imaging. Specifically, if I have to sit in ONE precise spot to get true stereo and optimum sound, that speaker design is out of the running. Period.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What, for you, are the critical measurements? What compromises are you willing to make?

for me, they have to be accurate. But the most important aspect, for any speaker that I get, is the soundstage and imaging. Speaccucifically, if I have to sit in ONE precise spot to get true stereo and optimum sound, that speaker design is out of the running. Period.

Accuracy is the most important to me. So on-axis and off-axis FR are the most important data to me.

Of course, how the speaker actually sounds is the most important.

 

[3db]

Accuracy is the most important to me. So on-axis and off-axis FR are the most important data to me.

Of course, how the speaker actually sounds is the most important.

Your on/off axes measurements for omnis will most likely be incorrect from improper measurement technics so they will always read poorly.


So ummm which is most important to you? You contradicted yourself with your last post.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your on/off axes measurements for omnis will most likely be incorrect from improper measurement technics so they will always read poorly.


So ummm which is most important to you? You contradicted yourself with your last post.

I didn't contradict anything.

I can copy and paste my statement again if you like.

Accuracy is the most important to me. So on-axis and off-axis FR are the most important data to me.

Therefore, I will not be buying any Omni directional speakers since they don't seem to have the best looking on-axis and off-axis FR.

 

[3db]

I didn't contradict anything.

I can copy and paste my statement again if you like.

Accuracy is the most important to me. So on-axis and off-axis FR are the most important data to me.

Therefore, I will not be buying any Omni directional speakers since they don't seem to have the best looking on-axis and off-axis FR.

And I quote ...

"Accuracy is the most important to me. So on-axis and off-axis FR are the most important data to me.

Of course, how the speaker actually sounds is the most important. "


So which is it?

Like I said, Omnis have been measured incorrectly by the audio rags so what you are looking at are bogus graphs. Choosing something on bogus data is wrong. Just a thought.

 

[Hocky]

Like I said, Omnis have been measured incorrectly by the audio rags so what you are looking at are bogus graphs. Choosing something on bogus data is wrong. Just a thought.

But it's on the internet.... it has to be true!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And I quote ...

"Accuracy is the most important to me. So on-axis and off-axis FR are the most important data to me.

Of course, how the speaker actually sounds is the most important. "


So which is it?

Like I said, Omnis have been measured incorrectly by the audio rags so what you are looking at are bogus graphs. Choosing something on bogus data is wrong. Just a thought.

Oh yeah, let's play word games. I need a lawyer to proof read before I submit my post.

How a speaker sounds is not a DATA.

A data is an objective measurement.

How a speaker sounds is a subjective preference, not a data.

Are you saying that you are more qualified to measure omni speakers than HTM, S&V mag, Stereophile, etc.?

Can you prove they measured incorrectly?

 

[3db]

Oh yeah, let's play word games. I need a lawyer to proof read before I submit my post.

How a speaker sounds is not a DATA.

A data is an objective measurement.

How a speaker sounds is a subjective preference, not a data.

Are you saying that you are more qualified to measure omni speakers than HTM, S&V mag, Stereophile, etc.?

Can you prove they measured incorrectly?

Can you proove that they aren't measured correctly? Do you know if they have changed their measurieng technics for measuring OMNI?

What I'm saying is don't dismiss a loudspeaker so quickly that may measure poorly but sound good to your ears. That means you don't trust your hearing? Is that what you are saying?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can you proove that they aren't measured correctly? Do you know if they have changed their measurieng technics for measuring OMNI?

What I'm saying is don't dismiss a loudspeaker so quickly that may measure poorly but sound good to your ears. That means you don't trust your hearing? Is that what you are saying?

Yeah, from now on I'll just buy and recommend speakers that sound great to my ears regardless of measurements.

Everyone has different criteria when they buy speakers. I will not spend my $$ on some speakers that don't have great measurements.

But you can buy speakers with crappy measurements if you like.

 

[3db]

Yeah, from now on I'll just buy and recommend speakers that sound great to my ears regardless of measurements.

Thats your perogative

Everyone has different criteria when they buy speakers. I will not spend my $$ on some speakers that don't have great measurements.

But you can buy speakers with crappy measurements if you like.

1.) Chances are good sound speakers will have fairly decent specs so your point is moot.

2.) I was just pulling your leg about contradicitng yourself....refer line 1.

3.) Sometimes you have to stop looking at the tree to see the forest.

Chill man

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Chances are good sound speakers will have fairly decent specs so your point is moot.

Plenty of people think Zu Audio, Wilson Audio, and Vienna Acoustics speakers sound good, yet they measure like crap.

Plenty of people think Bose sound good too.

 

[Hocky]

I have heard the Zu Dominance and while the speaker had a number of problems, it was a TON of fun. I guarantee that they measure terribly, but if I had that money to throw away, I would buy a pair without thinking twice. It is definitely not always about measurements for me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have heard the Zu Dominance and while the speaker had a number of problems, it was a TON of fun. I guarantee that they measure terribly, but if I had that money to throw away, I would buy a pair without thinking twice. It is definitely not always about measurements for me.

Of course. There's absolutely nothing wrong with buying any speakers. Everyone has a different criteria.

And I never said that speakers that have bad FR will sound bad. I just said that my criteria for buying speakers include 1) great objective FR & 2) great subjective sound.

 

[DenPureSound]

Of course. There's absolutely nothing wrong with buying any speakers. Everyone has a different criteria.

And I never said that speakers that have bad FR will sound bad. I just said that my criteria for buying speakers include 1) great objective FR & 2) great subjective sound.

I think the Aperions VGT's are missing the upper end highs, that "Airy" stuff they all talk about!! And, the FR plot shows it dropping down 5dB above 15kHz.

I know the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter would get rid of that problem!!

 

[JerryLove]

If it ain't rocket science liek you say, why do they keep f?cking up the measurements for omni directional speakers?

Can you define "they", and ""f?cking up"?

Clearly, there's more to it which points out one of two possibilities, the reviewers are clueless or they are too lazy to measure the speakers properly. Either way, I wouldn't trust measurements wirtten by any audio mag on omnis with the sole exception of maybe stereophile.

Ahh. This is a complaint about the veracity of (insert source here)'s measurements.

I don't believe I made any claim that company X or reviewer Y took good measurements. Did I?

I stand by my earlier post.