New equipment questions

[mattsk8]

Hey all, I've been an audio fanatic basicly all my life. I just recently upgraded my system's reciever and dvd to get TrueHD. I got rid of my Denon receiver and HK DVD player and purchased a Yamaha RX-V1065 receiver and a Panasonic DMP-BD65SP-K BD DVD player. I also purchased a Klipsch SW-350 powered sub (upgrade from my old Polk). I'm still running my JBL Northridge series speakers as I can't afford to upgrade as of yet and I'm actually pretty satisfied w/ there sound for now.

My question pertains to the TrueHD. I had Dolby Digital figured out on the Denon to optimize the home theater sound but it seems to be much more involved w/ BD players to get TrueHD.

My first question is: is this the best DVD player for the money? I have in the past spent good money on DVD players and didn't get anywhere by doing so. I purchased this Panasonic because I don't need wifi and the best DVD player I've owned so far (above the Denon and an HK) was a Panasonic that I had years ago.

Second question involves a lot of variables I'm sure: What do I set my DVD player to- bitstream or pcm? I'm using HDMI from DVD to receiver, then from receiver to LCD TV.

Third question: How do I know if I'm getting a TrueHD, digital, or just a PLII signal? W/ my old Denon, knowing I was getting a digital signal was easy because it spelled it out. W/ the Yamaha I don't see anything that tells me except that it shows the 5 (I am doing 5.1, not 6 or 7.1) speakers on the receivers display, but that's about it. The Denon was definitely more user friendly for setup than the new Yamaha is to me! Is there anyone here that's familiar or better yet, owns this receiver?

Fourth and last question: Is bi-amping worth it? I have this option both through my reciever and on my main speakers, just didn't know if it gave you that much better sound or not. Seems like it would be harder on the receiver just because your running more power. Didn't know if it was justified by better sound.

Thanks in advance for any help. I know I can (and did) search here for some (or maybe all) of my answers but when I did it still raised a bit of confusion. Thanks again for any replies!!

 

[MDS]

Second question involves a lot of variables I'm sure: What do I set my DVD player to- bitstream or pcm? I'm using HDMI from DVD to receiver, then from receiver to LCD TV.

The only difference is where the decoding of the signal occurs - in the player or in the receiver. Ultimately the result just before conversion to analog is going to PCM in both cases. The advantage to setting it to bitstream is that the receiver will see the original format and can perform (in some cases) additional post-processing on it. An example would be a function like 'late night' mode or Dolby volume. Some formats have additional meta-data in the stream that the receiver can use to perform those functions.

I always prefer bitstream so that the receiver is in charge of all processing of the signal.

Third question: How do I know if I'm getting a TrueHD, digital, or just a PLII signal? W/ my old Denon, knowing I was getting a digital signal was easy because it spelled it out. W/ the Yamaha I don't see anything that tells me except that it shows the 5 (I am doing 5.1, not 6 or 7.1) speakers on the receivers display, but that's about it. The Denon was definitely more user friendly for setup than the new Yamaha is to me!

If you bitstream to the receiver, the receiver will see the original format and most receivers indicate on the display what that format is. If you let the player do the decoding, the receiver will only see multi-channel PCM and have no idea what the original format was.

Just for reference, PLII is not an audio format that is encoded on a disc. It is a matrix decoder that converts 2 channel analog or digital sources to 5.1. If your player cannot output multi-channel PCM, it will downmix to 2 channel PCM and then you'd have to use PLII or a similar matrix decoder to turn it back into 5.1. Yet another reason why I prefer the bitstream setting.

Fourth and last question: Is bi-amping worth it?

No, you're just using 2 of the 7 amplifiers in the receiver to separately amplify the tweeters and woofers. Receivers generally have a shared power supply so nothing is really gained. You won't be able to use zone2 functionality either if you choose the bi-amp option.

 

[jostenmeat]

1. IMO, it is, particularly if you do not need the greatest feature set in streaming, and are planning on using only its digital outputs. They own the majority of bluray patents, and I think this is why out of countless viewings over the last few years, I have never had a single playback issue that was due to the fault of the player. I've had a couple of bad discs though.

2. MDS covered why you would want to bitstream. The only caveat that I can think of is if your receiver lacks in processing power, where it cannot either matrix for rears and/or apply Audyssey, etc, when it has to also decode. Of course, yours doesn't have Audyssey, but I believe some Yammys in the past could not both matrix and decode.

3. Already covered. However, I can have both TrueHD and PLIIX show up simultaneously. The first is the codec, the second is post processing; they can coexist.

4. Most will say it's not, in the case of passive biamping. The load that the tweeter represents is very minimal, and the difficulties in driving a speaker pretty much always lies with the rest of the speaker. That said, I have read here that the improved separation of clipping spectral components may mean it's worth a shot. I myself have never cared to try, even if I don't run extra zones.

 

[mattsk8]

2. MDS covered why you would want to bitstream. The only caveat that I can think of is if your receiver lacks in processing power, where it cannot either matrix for rears and/or apply Audyssey, etc, when it has to also decode. Of course, yours doesn't have Audyssey, but I believe some Yammys in the past could not both matrix and decode.

This is where the confusion is for me... What's the difference between Yamaha's YPAO and Audyssey?

There is a review this site did on my receiver that was actually what sold me on it, but I can't post it cuz I only have 1 post n need 5! I got it because I don't really need any of the cons it received, and the pro's were great.

It definitely sounds better than my older Denon did even if I don't know what the receiver's decoding the movies as! But I just want to know that I have everything set up right, know what I mean?!

On another note, while I do like the sound of the JBL's I have, I almost got some Energy speakers but got talked out of it by the wife! What bookshelf speakers are decent w/out breaking the bank? I'm still concidering a new set up (minus the sub, very happy w/ the Klipsch). I've heard Energys, a good friend has Paradigms n those sound great, and I haven't heard a pair in a while but Bostons always sounded good (back in the day) too. I would need just about everything- fronts, center, n rears.

One other question... I've always only run 5.1 because of the way my living room is set up. I have the seating on both sides (and one in the center) of the living room so I never ran the 7.1 because I thought it would sound worse if you were sitting on either side and had the one speaker right by your head. Therefore, I assumed the 5.1 would sound better just because the speakers are a little further away. The room is wired for 7.1 though. Is this how you would run it or would you just do the 7.1?

 

[mattsk8]

Disregard the speaker question. I'll save that for when I can afoard them and post that in the right area

 

[jostenmeat]

This is where the confusion is for me... What's the difference between Yamaha's YPAO and Audyssey?

Audyssey seriously might make double digit technologies, lemme see, 2eq, MultEQ, MultEQ XT, MultEQ XT32, BassXT, Audyssey Pro, DynamicEQ, Dynamic Volume, Audssey DSX. Yep that's double digit, lemme see how many I missed. Looks like there is also something called ABX and Volume Extension, but just a 0.5 sec gander looks like it tells me they are not so much for HT?

So, which one did you want to compare to YPAO?

After you choose one, then you have to be specific with both brand and model, because it is those that really confuse consumers, even many AHers. The implementation in various ways, particularly with the available target curves, and which of those can be chosen with any specific listening mode takes time to learn about (and I think really misleads many people).

If you want to know more about how to get the most out of your Denon, I will send you over to batpig's site. I rarely/never peruse it as I've never owned a Denon processor. He is also always at AVS.

http://batpigworld.com/audyssey.html

YPAO is proprietary to Yamaha. No one else uses it. I think it has the reputation as being the most simplisitic of all the well known "RC" techs, as even MCAAC is more advanced so far as I know. However even MCAAC does absolutely nothing with the LFE, AFAIK, and otherwise only corrects down to something like 63hz. It is the bass/sub/LFE where you really get a lot of bang for buck with Audyssey MultEQ and on up.

Other more advanced RC techs that to come to mind are ARC1 and Trinnov (though recent implementation for consumer products don't seem to be very available and/or reliable from my very limited readings there). You can find ARC with Anthem.

But the fact that Audyssey MultEQ can be had for typical budgets is pretty cool. What does happen sometimes (again receiver manufacturer implementation), is the varying amount of processor power available to get the most out of the tech(s).

 

[mattsk8]

If you want to know more about how to get the most out of your Denon, I will send you over to batpig's site. I rarely/never peruse it as I've never owned a Denon processor. He is also always at AVS.

I actually sold my Denon, now I have the Yamaha. I kinda always figured these were basicly the difference between a Ford or Chevy (different names for auto speaker set-up). Just depends on the model. I always thought Audyssey was specific only to Denon.

Is there a site I can get on to get the most out of my Yamaha?

I really appreciate the input. It's nice to talk to some guys that actually know what they're saying. Asking the 'pros' at Best Buy is like getting AVR info from one of my kids!

Today I played w/ the Yamaha and my biggest frustration w/ it is that I still cant tell what format my movies are playing unless I go into an option menu on the GUI. Then I can check 'signal info'. My Denon was nice because it spelled it out on the front display of the reciever if it was playing digital, PLII, or whatever. This doesn't show anything except if your listening to a DSP mode- it'll tell you what mode your in. Which also brings up a question: Does anyone enjoy anything- movies or music- in a DSP mode? To me it all sounds terribly echoie (is that a word?!).

 

[MDS]

Today I played w/ the Yamaha and my biggest frustration w/ it is that I still cant tell what format my movies are playing unless I go into an option menu on the GUI. Then I can check 'signal info'. My Denon was nice because it spelled it out on the front display of the reciever if it was playing digital, PLII, or whatever.

I'm not familiar with any particular Yamaha, but most receivers are pretty much the same in that regard. On Onkyo receivers, there is a 'display' button on the front panel and on the remote. You can press it to cycle through showing the digital audio format, format + sampling frequency, volume + input selector, and so on. The last one selected will always display until you power down. I'd bet the Yamaha has the exact same functionality.

Which also brings up a question: Does anyone enjoy anything- movies or music- in a DSP mode? To me it all sounds terribly echoie (is that a word?!).

Hell No to the DSPs; the correct number of DSP modes to offer in a receiver is zero.

If it were a word, it would probably be spelled 'echoy'.

 

[jostenmeat]

I actually sold my Denon, now I have the Yamaha. I kinda always figured these were basicly the difference between a Ford or Chevy (different names for auto speaker set-up). Just depends on the model. I always thought Audyssey was specific only to Denon.

Ah. Yeah, Audyssey is also featured in Onkyo, Integra, NAD, Marantz, Crestron, Phase Technology, and Wisdom.

Is there a site I can get on to get the most out of my Yamaha?

Hm, I can't find a 1065 thread for you at AVS. There are a bunch of small threads, but no "owner's thread" that I see. Maybe the closest one is the 2065 thread?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1173599

I really appreciate the input. It's nice to talk to some guys that actually know what they're saying. Asking the 'pros' at Best Buy is like getting AVR info from one of my kids!

I know how you feel!

Today I played w/ the Yamaha and my biggest frustration w/ it is that I still cant tell what format my movies are playing unless I go into an option menu on the GUI. Then I can check 'signal info'. My Denon was nice because it spelled it out on the front display of the reciever if it was playing digital, PLII, or whatever. This doesn't show anything except if your listening to a DSP mode- it'll tell you what mode your in. Which also brings up a question: Does anyone enjoy anything- movies or music- in a DSP mode? To me it all sounds terribly echoie (is that a word?!).

I saw in one of those small threads, someone saying this:
"By the way it doesnt light anything on the front panel you go to option on the remote control then scroll down and it will say DTS Master or Dolby True HD".

I am using PLIIX THX at the moment as of last night, if only to access Audyssey Flat curve. I think I prefer it flat, if it is a tad bit more fatiguing. Time will tell. Good luck.

 

[mattsk8]

Thanks for all the replies, this site is amazing! Something else for the wife to yell at me for waisting my time w/

I think I'm slowly winning the battle. I figured out that it has a setting called 'pass thru'. Which shouldn't even be a setting, it should automatically do that w/out turning it on. One of those things (to me) that makes it unnecessarily harder to set up ! All it does is makes it so you can watch your movie w/out the stereo on and it 'passes thru' the receiver.

 

[mattsk8]

I am using PLIIX THX at the moment as of last night, if only to access Audyssey Flat curve. I think I prefer it flat, if it is a tad bit more fatiguing. Time will tell. Good luck.

I wish I knew more about what you were talking about . I always thought of PLII as a bad thing just cuz that's the format my old reciever picked if it wasn't getting a digital signal!

Been pretty stagnant on home theater since I got my old Denon about 8 years ago- lot of catching up to do before I'll truly know what's going on w/ the new one!!!

 

[jostenmeat]

I always thought of PLII as a bad thing just cuz that's the format my old reciever picked if it wasn't getting a digital signal

Well, I bet (not lots of money, say, a beer) that it was set that way as a default, and/or you had to choose either stereo or something else to have a different mode. PLII (or the X variety) will create mch out of a stereo source (and X will create rear channels out of even a 5.1 source).

Anyways, just because it was chosen to be applied to 2.0 sources doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. It didn't matter so much that the original sources weren't "digital", as it simply was that a stereo source was being fed to what I am betting was the default setting in your receiver. IOW, that stereo source could have been fed through a digital signal or analog signal. However, the algorithm is longer in the tooth at about a decade old now.