Needs Some Advice on Projector Screens

drumace

drumace

Audioholic Intern
Hi there,
I'm looking for a projector screen of 92"-100" to match with the Panasonic 8000 projector.
I know I don't want to see any waves on the screen which is typical to the "standard" screens, but I cannot afford the pricy tab-tension screens either. I also cannot use a fixed frame screen since my wife insists on having a TV on the wall.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tal
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
It doesn't work that way. Non-tensioned screens will develop waves in the material within 1-2 years. You can buy whatever you want, and I haven't seen one in 15 years which doesn't develop waves. So, you can buy whatever you want, but plan on needing to replace it within a few years.

Elite has three different models of tab-tensioned screens which are under $700. That's as cheap as they come, and I would check their website on the differences between those models and to which is the best to purchase for long-term reliability in a home theater setup.

Or, spend $100 on a non-tensioned screen, and replace it annually (or so).
 
afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Warlord
Even fixed frames can get waves too BMX?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Even fixed frames can get waves too BMX?
Fixed framed screens are tensioned. They use snaps or rods to pull the screen in all directions.

Fixed frame screens off the highest quality for the least amount of money by far. They are flatter, and stay flatter, than any other screen for a longer period of time. The Silver Ticket or Elite SableFrame screens from Amazon can be had at 100" diagonals for around $200, and they will basically last for as long as you own and care for it without issue.

That level of quality can't be realized by any screen that rolls up into a case.
 
jennicalexica

jennicalexica

Enthusiast
I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for when you said fixed frame screens but I use the "camp chef" portable projector screen. It allows you to move it easily and there is no hanging involved. Have a look at this article at pricenfees I found it pretty useful. I'm no expert when it comes to projectors but they seem to know their stuff, it helped me make my decision.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for when you said fixed frame screens but I use the "camp chef" portable projector screen. It allows you to move it easily and there is no hanging involved. Have a look at this article at pricenfees I found it pretty useful. I'm no expert when it comes to projectors but they seem to know their stuff, it helped me make my decision.
I'm always interested when someone says an article is useful to see if it actually is useful, or at least accurate.

First: Size is based on viewing distance in relation to personal preference and THX design standards, not projector brightness. You buy a projector to fit the size of the screen which is appropriate to the space and your preferences.

GAIN: They actually do a decent job here, but end up going with "Contact someone" instead of actually giving an answer. In reality, 99% of installations deserve a 1.0 to 1.4 gain screen from a decent manufacturer. Some manufacturers have screen surfaces which increase shimmer and hot spotting due to the material they use. But, most do not and most do a fine job. Reading reviews can let people know what brands are acceptable. Negative reviews can often be some of the best reads.

ASPECT RATIO: That is very well discussed. I have a strong push for people to use 16:9 screens since they are (or should be) buying a 16:9 projector. There are few situations, and most of them are bad situations, in which a 2.35 screen makes sense. In no situation does a 4:3 screen really make sense anymore.

COMPOSITE MATERIAL: Okay, this may be called screen type. Light rejecting, acoustically transparent, standard. The information is decent here.

Not mentioned: Differences in roll up, fixed frame, electric, tab-tensioned, portable, etc. The biggest thing I find people not understanding is that a fixed frame screen for $300 is going to be better over the long term than any other screen. If you must use a roll-up screen, you should be using a tab-tensioned electric screen. Non-tab-tensioned screens are a waste of money, especially those which are motorized. Get a cheap manual roll up screen if you must have a screen that rolls up. Preferably get a fixed frame screen.

The reviews for the screens are very weak. A 72" screen isn't mid-sized - it's tiny. A typical home theater uses a screen between 100" and 120" Some go to 92" or smaller, but that is rare. Many go to 133", and some go a good deal larger with 150"+ in size becoming more common. A 150" screen is over four times the surface area of a 72" screen. Yes, a 72" screen is tiny in the front projection world. Heck, 70" is becoming more common for the flat panel world.

Want good and accurate information? Ask on forums of websites which specialize in A/V like here, AVS, Projector Central, etc. Don't just read some article assuming that they know what they are talking about. Also, before a purchase, look on Amazon and read the reviews. A $100 screen doesn't matter so much, but a $300 or $500, or $5,000 screen is certainly worth doing some homework on.

Especially when talking about expensive light rejecting screens like Black Diamond. The BD screen is one of the worst looking screens I've ever seen for actual image quality, but one of the best at doing what it is supposed to do. So, it is perfect in a lit boardroom, or at a bar with ambient light, but horrible for your home theater. That's something you can learn on forums, but not from most websites. Especially websites which include some advertising like the one you listed.
 
C

canelli

Audioholic
I believe BMXTRIX nailed it.

The only thing I would mention is the importance of determining the amount of light (direct and indirect) that will reflect off the screen. Also, consider the amount of light the projector can produce (on low and/or high) with relation to seating distances. These will help guide you to determining the right screen gain.

I had to weigh and make decisions that sometimes felt like compromises when working on my media room. Trying to maximize the experience of the room taught me that their are lots of details to get right and the right compromises actually enhance the overall affect.
 
E

Epetti

Audioholic Intern
Great info here. A couple questions based on the above advice:

Why would 2.35 screens be such a bad decision in most situations? I get that the native image is 16:9 and you need either a lens or memory zoom settings to handle the aspect ratios, but if you're going for a theatrical experience at the end of the day you want the cinemascope movies to feel bigger, not smaller, than the 16:9 movies. I think it takes away from their visual impact when they're letterboxed on a 16:9 screen. What would you consider the few situations where a 2.35 screen makes sense?

Second, if you do have a requirement for both a TV and projector in the same room, are there setups that could work while still getting the benefits and price of a fixed frame screen? Has anyone done a setup that has worked? I'm assuming it would require a mobile TV since the screen would be fixed.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Many theaters actually use masking systems and work with constant width setups. They have plenty of height to work with, which is also common for many home theaters. Many rooms have plenty of height to work with the added height that a 16:9 screen has over a 2.35 screen, which is wider. So, there is no room for a 2.35 screen unless it is really short in height, which means that you are giving up height for absolutely zero reason whatsoever.

WHO CARES? Seriously, the argument for 2.35 shouldn't be that it is bigger in your room than 16:9. The argument should be getting the right size, and that's often the largest size, with the greatest visual impact for all sources which will be viewed in the space. If you can get that by using a larger 16:9 screen, then that is what does work in the room best.

Also, using an anamorphic lens or zooming in/out for different screen types is not something a lot of people want to do. It's just an added headache to the setup of the system. Putting on screen masks is no more, or less, fun to do. It's just a paint when you have a native 16:9 projector to work within the restraints that a 2.35 screen forces upon you.

Finally, it does require a specific setup that either costs significantly more, or requires specific projectors which can work with both a 2.35 and a 16:9 screen in the same room.

That said: If someone wants 2.35, I'm not going to stand in their way, I'm just going to ask if they have actually thought things through or if they are just suckers for marketing. I would do a 2.35 setup myself if my wall was really wide and I had extra width to put to use that wouldn't work with a 16:9 screen. A 10' tall room with a 20' wide wall, for example. I would then spend the money to get a anamorphic lens, and a motorized sled so I could automate the 2.35/16:9 viewing experience easily. I likely would add motorized masking to the screen so I could frame down the 2.35 screen to 16:9 so I didn't have black bars on the left/right side of the screen when viewing HD material. In my mind, the lengths necessary to go to setup a proper 2.35 viewing experience are far greater than those for 16:9 viewing, and not worth it for the vast majority of people. Vast majority, should not be confused with 'all'.

Second: If you have a requirement for both a TV and projector, you can get a lift for a TV, put a TV on a mobile cart, you can get a $1,000 or less motorized, tab-tensioned screen and have it drop in front of the TV, you can get a fixed frame screen and put a hook on the ceiling and hang the screen from chains and flip the screen up when not in use, or remove it completely.

I actually just got a SilverTicket screen to use for testing and I hung it from chains. It looks very nice, but I can take it down in 2 minutes and move it into storage if I want to.

There are certainly options which can be met by a number of different solutions depending on the space and users.
 
Jay aLBERS

Jay aLBERS

Junior Audioholic
Kind of off topic, but not really.
I see a bunch of recommendations for spending $300 on a screen.
It looks like he has a pretty decent projector picked out, why not recommend a good high quality screen like a Stewart? If this wife demands a TV on the wall he may be able to get away with a nice looking screen that enhances his projector. The reason I ask is that I recently moved a Sony VPL VW12 HT projector to a different room and went with a cheap Elite screen. I noticed a large drop off in the viewing experience from the Stewart that I watched it on in the other room. And this was dropping from a 110 inch to a 92 inch screen. Technically the smaller screen should look better, all things coincided.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Second: If you have a requirement for both a TV and projector, you can get a lift for a TV, put a TV on a mobile cart, you can get a $1,000 or less motorized, tab-tensioned screen and have it drop in front of the TV, you can get a fixed frame screen and put a hook on the ceiling and hang the screen from chains and flip the screen up when not in use, or remove it completely.

Thank you for clarifying, I was not aware that you could get a tensioned screen, that was also motorized to hideaway. Now to make things more complicated:

Any recommendations when looking at perforated tab tensioned motorized screens? Naturally the price comes up, but where should I aim with regards to diminishing returns? (Assuming it gets installed in my current room, I will need heavy curtains, so a small amount of gain is all that should be needed)
 
Best3175

Best3175

Enthusiast
I have a 96" (I think) widescreen, HIGH CONTRAST AUDIO VISION Da-Lite screen on a motorized, tensioned set-up. I have had it for 10 years this Christmas. While I have had to re-glue a couple of the tension tabs to the screen, the screen has not developed any noticeable waves.

I really like the screen, but I do not recommend the acoustically transparent screens, especially with LCD projectors. The screen door effect of either the screen or the projector may not be very noticeable by itself, but it is magnified when used together.
 
D

Downhere1894

Enthusiast
May want to check out the VApex screens, they seem to be cheaper than Elite and just as good.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Thank you for clarifying, I was not aware that you could get a tensioned screen, that was also motorized to hideaway. Now to make things more complicated:

Any recommendations when looking at perforated tab tensioned motorized screens? Naturally the price comes up, but where should I aim with regards to diminishing returns? (Assuming it gets installed in my current room, I will need heavy curtains, so a small amount of gain is all that should be needed)
Perforated? You mean an AT (acoustically transparent)?
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Perforated? You mean an AT (acoustically transparent)?

Yes, but it seems that it is in my best interest to scrap that idea and design my speakers (DIY, of course) to accommodate a big ole fixed frame!
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Yes, but it seems that it is in my best interest to scrap that idea and design my speakers (DIY, of course) to accommodate a big ole fixed frame!
Depends. I have a 135" tensioned, AT, electric drop down screen and I love it. Fixed frame would be nice, but I like being able to have the room pull double duty with the TV, especially since it's a walkout basement.

A really good fixed frame AT screen ain't cheap and is actually probably more expensive than the screen I have since the best AT screen materials will attenuate much less than the screen I have, less than 1db or between 1-2db for most of the audible range. Mine averages something like 2-3 db, but can be up to 4.5db towards the top end. However after Audyssey, it's not noticeable with the screen down and the extra high frequency boost doesn't cause any harshness until near reference volumes are reached with the screen up.

Having always had to go a little smaller with my previous screens because they weren't AT, I wouldn't go back. Bigger is definitely better and even with a "mediocre" AT screen compared to the top end stuff, it's been awesome. YMMV. ;)
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Seymour AV makes some very nice AT screens for not a ton of cash. They sell complete screens as well as material for the DiY crowd. I am using one of their woven screens with the Sony HW40ES on a 134" or so diagonal size (fixed frame) and my client has been very happy. The tight weave with a quality center mounted behind it works well, and looks great. They are sitting about 9' away from the screen, which was a concern, until they saw the projector and the screen together and their fears went away.

For 'cheap' tab-tensioned motorized screens, I'm not sure there have been real tests. The reality is that cheap screens can look very good. Tab-tensioning systems should last for years without issue, and the new DaLite screens are done differently to fix the tabs popping open like they did on older screens. But, much like a new car, it is hard to tell how any models will hold up over the years. You read reviews, then just make an informed buying decision.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I will say my Favi manual pull down screen has held up very well. I'm sure some day it will have waving issues, but when it does I'll go fixed frame. Probably Carada or SilverTicket
 
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