Need sub suggestions... photos included

S

Sounds Good

Senior Audioholic
About a month ago i ordered a full 5.0 set of SVS speakers with floorstanders...
Its now time to order a sub. My budget is $700 +/- the kicker is my room is a little on the large side.

Jack @SVS recommend the PC12-NSD, personally i LOVE the form factor of the 14" cube of the SB12-NSD, but Jack felt the small sealed sub wouldnt have enough umph in my large room.

i am just wondering what others suggest.


 
HexOmega

HexOmega

Audioholic
If you're up for a road trip, you could always take a trip to see the SVS people in person. They're about 3 hours away from you in Girard.

When you spoke to them, did they give you an estimate of when the new PB12-NSD would become available? That should fall within your budget and offer more output than the SB12-NSD in your room. I've got a SB12 coming at the end of this week, but it's going into a smaller room (~1400 Cu. Ft.).

The Hsu VTF-3 MK3 is also within your price range; check for some reviews on that.
 
S

Sounds Good

Senior Audioholic
Thanks everyone, i am sure you are all tired of " hey, i need a sub" threads..

i am stuck on these small footprint subs for some reason.. maybe its the WAF... i dunno.. but truth be told, in my larger room they probably wont preform very well.

I might wait for that SVS to be released and check it out...

I am SURE i cant go wrong with the 2 larger SVS offerings, but just like how you wouldnt get a estimate from one plumber/contractor i dont want to just jump on the SVS because a guy at SVS recommended it.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I am SURE i cant go wrong with the 2 larger SVS offerings, but just like how you wouldnt get a estimate from one plumber/contractor i dont want to just jump on the SVS because a guy at SVS recommended it.
It's like this

Sub A is a sealed design. Below a certain point, the output falls off at a 12db/pctave pace.

Only the driver produces any sound for sub A. The internal volume of the box affects the behaviour of the driver especially with regards to its ability to move in and out and reproduce the deepest bass.

In sub B, a vent acts as a helmholtz resonator to produce sounds below the capability of the driver (in conjunction with the rolloff of the driver above). This will produce deeper response. IN effect, not only does it need its own space (vent space) but it needs its own internal box volume as if it's a driver. It's sharing it with the driver so the internal pressure would create too many issues in response if you just used a small box big enough for the one driver. After a certain point, this port's output actually works against the driver and produces a sharp falloff in output (24db/octave) but usuaully we can push this point a lot lower than the equivalent point in a sealed sub.

So the sealed sub might still give you output around 40-80hz, but you likely won't get the deep bass wIthout heavy EQ, which usually asks a lot of an amplifier and driver and usually just limits your output everywhere to keep things on an even keel.

For music it's usually okay, as only a few instruments extend much lower than 40hz or so. In a small room, the added energy of reflecting the large wavelengths will give you back some of the lost bass below the "knee". In a large room this energy can spread out a lot more and won't reflect as much.


For movies however, we cane easily have content down to 15hz or so. Heck, Black Hawk Down IIRC has content down to 8hz. Reproducing this extreme bass obviously requires many huge drivers EQed or huge drivers and huge ports. Either way it's never going to happen with one small driver in one small box.

Usually at your price point you should expect to be reproducing down to around 22-23hz with meaningfull output and good sound quality. If you're only getting down to around 35hz in your room, then you're pretty much missing a full octave of bass! An octave where movies in particular THRIVE and really dominate!

WIth all that said, perhaps a passive radiator option might be in store for you. Think of it as a ported box, just minus the port volume I mentioned earlier (still need internal volume to accomodate the helmholtz resonator, just not the port itself). The port is replaced by a passive cone. The only passive radiator subs i can think of off the top of my head would be offered by Salk Sound and Funkywaves. So perhaps try to get in touch with them. FW doesn't really have an offering like that but might be able to do it custom to your needs. I would ask about a small SDX-10 based sub with passive radiators. And of course Salk has their Salk Songsub, with bass down to 22hz.

I believe sunfire subs maye have an offering for you although i've never really been a believer in 8 inch or brick and mortar subs but you might want to hit up your local sunfire dealer and see what you think.

Another, more out-there alternative, would be to go infinite baffle. It can be a bit more inconspicuous in one sense, although in another sense you have holes in walls.
 
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A

alligatorman

Audiophyte
I've researched wubsoofers to the end of the earth in the last month.

You didn't list what you're using it for? What are your criteria? Deep bass extension, music, home theatre, ,max SPL, max SQL..etc

Have you considered that your limiting factor may be the output from the speakers...? What level do you listen to movies/music? I have a feeling the subs being suggested here will overpower them.

That being said, I ended up with an Epik Empire. It's big but it'll put out with the 12" ported subs and still have great sound quality the sealed designs are known for. $799

Other top choices to keep you under $700 are the:
Hsu VTF-3 Mk. 3
SVS PB12-NSD
Hsu VTF-2 MK. 3

The Hsu 3.3 has 4-6 dB on the SVS. The SVS has a little bit less distortion but about the same output as the VTF2.3. Last I checked the SVS was back-ordered.

Good luck.

(You can't go wrong, unless the WAF...!)

Nate
 
S

Sounds Good

Senior Audioholic
Thanks everyone for the help. I think I am going to place an order for the svs pc12-nsb cylinder.

Its a local company for me, so I will be supporting the local economy. :)
 
S

Sounds Good

Senior Audioholic
Well, back to the drawing board... i did not order the SVS.

Every time i think i find THE sub for me, i read someones review on a different one that peaks my interest...

This next statement is copy/pasted from another members tread, i felt i was starting to jack his thread... I have my own sub discussing going... :)

I am scared to death that the sub i pick will be this uncontrollable beast in the corner, growling and showing its teeth, rattling things off shelves and things like that... that is not what i want..

coming from a sub/satellite system i want something that sounds integrated and refined, seamless transitions from the cut off of the towers to the lowest freq provided by the sub...


Maybe i am being a little ignorant as i have never owned anything but a small 10" single port sub...

I just cant help but going back to my high school days and remembering my friends cramming the largest woofer and highest power amp in their trunks.. it sounded hideous...


on second thought..
Ive also looked at "higher end, small footprint subs" like NHT B12d, SVS SB12, Rythmik F12...

and i feel those would also work well for me, BUT when the time comes when i want to watch a move with great low end, or i want to "show off" to someone... these smaller subs will go flat...

so i am left with the old adage, Go big or go home. but i am scared to pull the trigger on a possible uncontrollable beast...
 
SopRage

SopRage

Audioholic
Buy the PC or PB12-NSD. You can always turn the volume down if necessary.

You can get always get a capable sub to do less; you can't get an incapable one to do more.

I'd recommend the VTF-3, but since it's going in your front right corner, you can hide the SVS a little better since you won't need space from the wall for the driver.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
a sub is like a car. in that YOU control the amount of output.
if it starts " growling and showing its teeth" , just turn it down.

forget about those car sub comparisons = completely different animal.
 
S

Sounds Good

Senior Audioholic
a sub is like a car. in that YOU control the amount of output.
if it starts " growling and showing its teeth" , just turn it down.

forget about those car sub comparisons = completely different animal.
Ok... good...

so i guess ill get a larger output sub... now to just decide on which one... HSU, Rytmik (ported or sealed), SVS... hummmm.....
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
My handy calculator comes up with 2300cuft - that's not a huge space. It's a nice size living room but not big enough to be a problem space. On the other hand if it's open to anything else (hall ways etc.) then you have to count that space as well. Get a hold of Elemental Designs and Hsu Research and get suggestions from them as well but I don't see a big problem with 2300cuft. Also keep in mind that a subwoofer can make a fine end table.

What I would keep in mind with rug rats is that there is always temtation to poke a pencil through the driver to see what's inside or hide dad's keys in the port. Something like a down firing, bottom ported design like an Outlaw LFM-1 EX or Plus by the chair or to the left of the couch might make a good kid resistant solution. So might that SVS PC12-NSD. Outlaw Audio still has a deal going on their subwoofer/wireless connector bundle. Then again if you can talk the wife into upping the budget and can keep small fingers away a 15" Rythmik would sure be nice but the ported vs vented points made by GranteedEV still apply.
 
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S

Sounds Good

Senior Audioholic
My handy calculator comes up with 2300cuft - that's not a huge space. ...... I don't see a big problem with 2300cuft.
.
So how would a smaller foot print sub like the SVS SB12, NHT B-12D, you know... hight WAF subs... perform in my room?
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
So how would a smaller foot print sub like the SVS SB12, NHT B-12D, you know... hight WAF subs... perform in my room?
I have no hands on with those subs but I use a Hsu ULS-15 in my 3000cuft bedroom and it sounds great - but it's a bigger, more powerful, more expensive sealed sub. G-EV hit the nail on the head with the difference in sound between sealed and vented. Sealed are tighter and wonderful for music but the smaller ones can struggle with 20hz movie explosions. That's where vented subs excel.
 
S

Sounds Good

Senior Audioholic
Thanks everyone for the advice...

I guess it comes down to me now... i have to decide.. imo i don't think i can go wrong with any of the subs vie mentioned... they are all great..

I am between..
SVS PC12-NSD
eD A5 - 350
Rythmik FV15


hummmm....
 
digicidal

digicidal

Full Audioholic
Just to further confuse the issue... I have a similar room (well to be honest the listening area is not very large, but it opens to the kitchen, dining room, family room and two hallways). My budget was about the same but with the recent sales pricing I went with two Ultra12s from Emotiva. Each one may not have the output you'd want optimally... but with two of them they do at least as well as a single 15 (IMO) and don't break a sweat. :)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
From the ones you listed, I would go with the Rythmik FV15.
 
A

acroy

Audiophyte
The Rythmik is pretty awesome - gets my vote for the factory-built options.
Have you investigated the infinite baffle? I finally went this way and have not looked back. There's nothing better (imho)
If you are OK constructing a cabinet, the Creative Sound Solutions Trio12 is pretty dang cool: 12" driver, 15" passive radiator, 500w amp for $360. The accurate sound of a sealed box with the efficiency of ported. You could have a shop make the cabinet and still probably come within your budget.
Have fun ;)
 

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