Need Recommendations for a Home Theater Upgrade

[movingtarget75]

Considering some upgrades to my home theater and want some advice on what will give me the most noticeable upgrade. The last thing I want to do is spend $500 to $1500 for a negligible difference in quality/performance.

Here is what’s on the table:

1. Upgrading a Outlaw LFM1 Plus Subwoofer to a SVS SB3000 or PB3000.
2. Upgrading a Denon AVRS710W Receiver to another Denon Receiver, probably something from the X Series.
3. Adding rear speakers that match my front speakers. My front, center, and surround speakers are Klipsch Reference Premier (2017) while the rear speakers are the basic Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers. I would swap out the rear speakers for another pair of Reference Premier Bookshelf speakers or the 500SA wallmount speakers.

My thoughts are the subwoofer would probably provide the most noticeable upgrade, the rear speakers will provide no discernible upgrade, and I have no idea if a more powerful receiver will matter or not.

The Outlaw sub is a good sub but I’ve had buyer’s remorse since buying it in 2013 and have wanted to upgrade it ever since. Probably for no good reason other than my own ignorance about subwoofers and the “grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.” (Okay, it’s really just jealously from reading all the awesome subwoofer reviews)

SVS is the only option for a subwoofer upgrade because of their 45 day free home trial with free shipping. I’m not going to drop $1000 on a sub and decide it’s about the same as my current sub without being able to get my money back.

Any ideas or recommendations from your own experience?

Or maybe I should just upgrade to a 4K projector.

 

[shadyJ]

The Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is a very good sub. The PB-3000 would be a significant upgrade from it, but not really the SB-3000. A better upgrade than getting a bigger sub is to ad another sub of the same performance level. I would be looking at adding an Outlaw Ultra-X12, Hsu VTF-2 mk5, SVS PC-2000 or PB-2000, or a Monoprice Monolith 12" THX Ultra. Those are all in the same ballpark of performance.

 

[BriReeves629]

Considering some upgrades to my home theater and want some advice on what will give me the most noticeable upgrade. The last thing I want to do is spend $500 to $1500 for a negligible difference in quality/performance.

Here is what’s on the table:

1. Upgrading a Outlaw LFM1 Plus Subwoofer to a SVS SB3000 or PB3000.
2. Upgrading a Denon AVRS710W Receiver to another Denon Receiver, probably something from the X Series.
3. Adding rear speakers that match my front speakers. My front, center, and surround speakers are Klipsch Reference Premier (2017) while the rear speakers are the basic Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers. I would swap out the rear speakers for another pair of Reference Premier Bookshelf speakers or the 500SA wallmount speakers.

My thoughts are the subwoofer would probably provide the most noticeable upgrade, the rear speakers will provide no discernible upgrade, and I have no idea if a more powerful receiver will matter or not.

The Outlaw sub is a good sub but I’ve had buyer’s remorse since buying it in 2013 and have wanted to upgrade it ever since. Probably for no good reason other than my own ignorance about subwoofers and the “grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.” (Okay, it’s really just jealously from reading all the awesome subwoofer reviews)

SVS is the only option for a subwoofer upgrade because of their 45 day free home trial with free shipping. I’m not going to drop $1000 on a sub and decide it’s about the same as my current sub without being able to get my money back.

Any ideas or recommendations from your own experience?

Or maybe I should just upgrade to a 4K projector.

I would get the 4K projector and get the Klipsch rear speakers so you have a Timbre match. Your current AVR has Dolby Atmos already so you should be alright there for now. While the SVS are awesome, as Shady said, you’d be better off adding a sub then replacing what you have.

 

[movingtarget75]

The Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is a very good sub. The PB-3000 would be a significant upgrade from it, but not really the SB-3000. A better upgrade than getting a bigger sub is to ad another sub of the same performance level. I would be looking at adding an Outlaw Ultra-X12, Hsu VTF-2 mk5, SVS PC-2000 or PB-2000, or a Monoprice Monolith 12" THX Ultra. Those are all in the same ballpark of performance.

Thanks for the input, would you elaborate on why the PB3000 would be a significant upgrade while the SB3000 would not? They both have similar specs with the obvious difference being one is ported and one is not.

Comparing the SB3000 to the LFM-Plus we see:

SB3000

• Amplifier: 800 WRMS (2500+ watts peak)
• Frequency Response | 18-270Hz ±3 dB

LFM-1 Plus

• Amplifier: 350WRMS (1300W peak)
• Frequency Response: 25Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB w/o Port Plug (I run my setup without the plug)
• 18Hz.-180Hz +/-2dB w/ one port plugged

So it looks like the SB3000 has substantially more power than the LFM-1 Plus while also hitting the same frequency response. Is it the difference in a ported vs sealed sub? I haven't had any extensive listening time with a good sealed sub so I'm in the dark here.

As far as getting a second sub, my current listening space really only has room for one. Maybe the next home will have a larger space but that is several years away. Two subs is appealing but I don't want to get stuck matching a sub (the LFM) that I haven't been 100% thrilled with. If I'm going to upgrade the sub I would rather buy a better model now and plan on adding a second sub sometime down the road.

 

[lovinthehd]

Basically a ported sub is more efficient with less dsp at the lower frequency response range....but if you have only one spot I'd simply keep what you have myself until I could go multiples. You have a good sub now....what room volume are we dealing with?

As for a different avr, if features or amp power make a difference, fine, but what are you looking to gain particularly with a change?

Rear speaker matching might be useful for multich music, movies I wouldn't bother....

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks for the input, would you elaborate on why the PB3000 would be a significant upgrade while the SB3000 would not? They both have similar specs with the obvious difference being one is ported and one is not.

Comparing the SB3000 to the LFM-Plus we see:

SB3000

• Amplifier: 800 WRMS (2500+ watts peak)
• Frequency Response | 18-270Hz ±3 dB

LFM-1 Plus

• Amplifier: 350WRMS (1300W peak)
• Frequency Response: 25Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB w/o Port Plug (I run my setup without the plug)
• 18Hz.-180Hz +/-2dB w/ one port plugged

So it looks like the SB3000 has substantially more power than the LFM-1 Plus while also hitting the same frequency response. Is it the difference in a ported vs sealed sub? I haven't had any extensive listening time with a good sealed sub so I'm in the dark here.

As far as getting a second sub, my current listening space really only has room for one. Maybe the next home will have a larger space but that is several years away. Two subs is appealing but I don't want to get stuck matching a sub (the LFM) that I haven't been 100% thrilled with. If I'm going to upgrade the sub I would rather buy a better model now and plan on adding a second sub sometime down the road.

The Outlaw LFM subs have a pretty sensitive driver, so they don't need as much wattage to be driven to loud levels. The ported design also makes them vastly more efficient in deep bass. The frequency response shapes stated by these manufacturers are probably different than what you are imagining as well. So basically, the SB-3000 has better specs, but it isn't necessarily going to get louder than the LFM-1 Plus. It makes some very heavy compromises to achieve its small size. Its great for a small sub, but it won't match the efficiency that can be had when a larger enclosure is allowed. Here is a very long-winded discussion that Audioholics had of ported vs sealed subs recently.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks for the input, would you elaborate on why the PB3000 would be a significant upgrade while the SB3000 would not? They both have similar specs with the obvious difference being one is ported and one is not.

Comparing the SB3000 to the LFM-Plus we see:

SB3000

• Amplifier: 800 WRMS (2500+ watts peak)
• Frequency Response | 18-270Hz ±3 dB

LFM-1 Plus

• Amplifier: 350WRMS (1300W peak)
• Frequency Response: 25Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB w/o Port Plug (I run my setup without the plug)
• 18Hz.-180Hz +/-2dB w/ one port plugged

So it looks like the SB3000 has substantially more power than the LFM-1 Plus while also hitting the same frequency response. Is it the difference in a ported vs sealed sub? I haven't had any extensive listening time with a good sealed sub so I'm in the dark here.

As far as getting a second sub, my current listening space really only has room for one. Maybe the next home will have a larger space but that is several years away. Two subs is appealing but I don't want to get stuck matching a sub (the LFM) that I haven't been 100% thrilled with. If I'm going to upgrade the sub I would rather buy a better model now and plan on adding a second sub sometime down the road.

My opinion on your early question of why the pb would be a good upgrade vs the sb is that as that like all sealed subs, the roll off begins much higher like 30-40hz. It also loses a LOT of efficiency. Theoretically the SB could play lower, but you’d need as many as 4 to have the same output. So below about 35hz the PB will destroy the SB, and imo it will be much better than the LFM. Iirc the older outlaws were always just a little behind in performance. If you’re really looking to gap the outlaw though, I think the pb/pc4k is a better choice. Especially if you’re considering a second one. If you’re only sticking with ones I’d get the best one you can afford.
I think all of the things you’re looking at upgrading are worthwhile. I’d personally start with the subwoofer.