need recommendation

[bradymartin]

i cant believe im thinking about spending up to $5100 for speakers
i dont want the upgrade bug to hit again

for both movies and music front 3

been reading a lot and watching youtube reviews. lots of content on the klipsch but not so much on the ascend.

ascend towers with raal and horizon center with raal. approx $4300 with tax

or klipsch rf 7 iii and 64 center for approx $5100 if theres no tax shipped to cali

im going to assume both setups will sound awesome with both movies and music

room is approx 12x18, 8 ft ceilings
denon x3300
hsu vtf2 mk5 sub
surrounds ill deal with later

 

[Phase 2]

i cant believe im thinking about spending up to $5100 for speakers
i dont want the upgrade bug to hit again

for both movies and music front 3

been reading a lot and watching youtube reviews. lots on the klipsch but not so much on the ascend.

ascend towers with raal and horizon center with raal. approx $4300 with tax

or klipsch rf 7 iii and 64 center for approx $5100 if theres no tax shipped to cali

im going to assume both setups will sound awesome with both movies and music

room is approx 12x18, 8 ft ceilings
denon x3300
hsu vtf2 mk5 sub
surrounds ill deal with later

Sorry I had to Lolo at your post..lol. You are no doubt hooked like the rest of us..Your choice of speakers to choose from are excellent at least I think so there are so many out there. You made my night with your post! Lol I have been contemplating the same thing for the last 2 months..lol going, I'm going to be spending about 2k on speaker's myself in about 5 months.

 

[bradymartin]

Sorry I had to Lolo at your post..lol. You are no doubt hooked like the rest of us..Your choice of speakers to choose from are excellent at least I think so there are so many out there. You made my night with your post! Lol I have been contemplating the same thing for the last 2 months..lol going, I'm going to be spending about 2k on speaker's myself in about 5 months.

yeam man im done with the incremental upgrades.

i started like 10 years ago. never thought about buying external speakers for my panasonic plasma tv. saw an ad on bestbuy for a 5.1 sony htib on sale and thought why not its only $150. then went on to energy classic with denon 1712 and continued to upgrade at least 7 times.
many years later here i am and i HAVE HAD IT

 

[Phase 2]

yeam man im done with the incremental upgrades.

i started like 10 years ago. never thought about buying external speakers for my panasonic plasma tv. saw an ad on bestbuy for a 5.1 sony htib on sale and thought why not its only $150. then went on to energy classic with denon 1712 and continued to upgrade at least 7 times.
many years later here i am and i HAVE HAD IT

Same here started out back in the mid 70's with two speakers from radio shack, a 45 watt x 2 receive a turntable and a cassette deck. I've spent thousands on the hobby. Lol.. I regret letting my Carver amp go and two Emo monoblock amps go to. But now at my age of 60, knowing full well that can't take it with you when the end time comes I figured what the hell why not. I'll probably end up in some hospital dying with them trying to get the last dime out of me anyways.

 

[ryanosaur]

For music, I would look for a really good three-way front rig. That's always been my personal preference. When I was shopping, I figured if music won't sound good, a movie won't sound good! I know that's not completely true, but it does seem that you can get speakers that excel at HT, yet aren't great for critical listening sessions. Likewise, I heard the opinions that accurate speakers with flat responses aren't great for HT. However, I don't find that to be the case when I watch movies, here.

The Ascend Sierra Towers and the Horizon, especially with the Raal upgrade would be very nice indeed! They compare quite nicely to the BMRs I have. Mind, I'm a music-first kinda guy. So accurate and neutral were the most desirable traits for me. I have heard nothing but good things about David's work at Ascend. My understanding is that he makes a point to be involved with every speaker coming out of his shop. Those, propped up down low by your Hsu sub(s?) should be quite nice.
Oh, and I love my Raal tweeters! Those 70-20XRs are supposed to be a very nice step up from the 64-10s in my system now. Clean and accurate, not bright or harsh, excellent transient response, great dispersion: all traits of the Raal tweeter. There was a tangent on the Philharmonic thread from that other forum where everybody was discussing if they would ever buy speakers without Raals once having them. For most, the answer was no.

I get that Klipsch is having a bit of a resurgence right now. @Danzilla31 sounds completely stoked with his rig, for example, and Shady's review was pretty great. But with that, I also hear pretty routinely, that Klipsch and JBL both excel at HT. I've never heard many digs about their abilities with music, but in my research, they weren't sold as music-first for the critical listener. (With the possible exception of many that said Klipsch was great for Rock and not so much for orchestral, but I digress. Several friends here have had great things to say about the JBL Studio 500 line, and if you catch them on sale, possibly the best bargain available.)

With all that in mind, if you are going to consider spending that kind of money on some speakers, you should look at Salk's Song 3 and Song 3 Center. But again, my value is on a great musical experience, which these will deliver in spades! And by my experience, if musical reproduction sounds great to a musician's ears (like mine) then all sounds will be cared for just as well (be it movie or video game).

Cheers!

 

[Kvn_Walker]

My biggest concern with the RF7's is them being 2-way speakers with large woofers. However, none of the reviews I've read (and I read as many as I could find when I was in shopping mode last year) have knocked their midrange reproduction.

I was in your boat last year OP... and if I didn't finally get the "go for broke or don't go at all" mindset I would probably still be buying speakers and selling them for a loss. I paid a hefty (for me) sum to get the T&A's, but it was more than 9k less than their MSRP. It was a killer deal in a relative sense, but a king's ransom in the absolute sense. But I've priced myself out of the market and won't be able to afford anything better than these for a very longtime, if ever. And every time I have the house to myself and get to unleash those puppies, I just smile because that's when no one can tell me it wasn't worth it.

So absolutely splurge and get what makes you truly happy for a long time. Otherwise it's an endless cycle of buying and selling short term. I learned that one full measure is much more satisfying than a hundred half measures.

 

[shadyJ]

My biggest concern with the RF7's is them being 2-way speakers with large woofers.

Nothing wrong with big woofers on a two-way speaker, so long as directivity can still be matched with the tweeter, and the crossover can be achieved low enough to prevent breakup. So you pretty much need a horn. But the results can be excellent.

 

[Danzilla31]

i cant believe im thinking about spending up to $5100 for speakers
i dont want the upgrade bug to hit again

for both movies and music front 3

been reading a lot and watching youtube reviews. lots of content on the klipsch but not so much on the ascend.

ascend towers with raal and horizon center with raal. approx $4300 with tax

or klipsch rf 7 iii and 64 center for approx $5100 if theres no tax shipped to cali

im going to assume both setups will sound awesome with both movies and music

room is approx 12x18, 8 ft ceilings
denon x3300
hsu vtf2 mk5 sub
surrounds ill deal with later

My Elan Theaterpointsthp650sl a 2 way speaker that I own that I was using for my surrounds originally are some of the best speakers I've heard for 2 channel listening and that surprised me. They also in 2 channel listening put out some of the best bass from a bookshelf sized LCR speaker I've ever heard. So far at least

Whether a speaker is overall good is less of a 2 way or 3 way speaker design thing. And more to do with proper design crossovers build quality etc etc. I've heard 2 ways that blow 3 ways away on everything and 3 ways that do the same thing in return

The new 2 way Klipsch RP8000f's I bought have completely exceeded my expectations every way. Not just home theater. They sound amazing with music.

I used to love Klipsch as a boy. But grew a little disenchanted over the years until now. The new RP line has all of theyre traditional strengths with none of theyre weaknesses.

Although they are ought of my budget for now I've heard the RF7-iiii's

That speaker is easily 2 to 3 times what my RP 8000's are. And these speakers are AWESOME.

The RF7-III has literally no weaknesses period. One of the best sounding speakers I've ever had the pleasure of hearing.

There are better but at a price point I would never care to go to. And then you have diminishing returns are they worth that price for what you get better

There one weakness is there bass extension. And that's nitpicking just because they can't play flat to 20hz. So they aren't a true full range speaker

But then again what really truly can at that price point and even a bit above?

 

[Russdawg1]

My vote will have to go to the RF7iii’s.

They should kill the Ascends in a theater setup cause they are flat out bigger. I mean it’s just physics. I love ascend, fellow owner here, but the small woofers and Raal tweeter aren’t cooking up anything special if you are watching movies. Music on the other hand...

I would also not be worried about the 2 way design with large woofers. The horn is crossed very low (1350hz) and directivity is matched fine. So no need to worry there. What I would worry is how well built your house is. Those things are super heavy and belt out bass.

I also like the looks of them. Very pretty. Especially in black gloss. Oh and you don’t have to pay full price for the RF7iii’s, unlike the Ascends.

 

[ryanosaur]

Whether a speaker is overall good is less of a 2 way or 3 way speaker design thing. And more to do with proper design crossovers build quality etc etc. I've heard 2 ways that blow 3 ways away on everything and 3 ways that do the same thing in return

And this is very true: a good 2-way can beat a mediocre 3-way any day.
I think an important step is to really define your goals when shopping for speakers, especially if your goal is a pair of 'forever' speakers, which you would be OK with if you could never find something better. That's what I did.
I have my BMR's from Dennis/Philharmonic now, and Salk is finishing my Phil 3's. It is possible that I might never find better speakers to buy without spending a minimum of 2-3x the cost of these in any manner of upgrade. In a 5-channel setup, I will have the Phil 3s at L/R with Center and Surround BMRs.
If I had to redo my Phil 3 order, I would order from Salk for finished speakers, or buy the Illuminismo kit from Selah Audio to build out myself. Those were really the only options, matching my goals, which I could find without caveat or significant additional expenditure. (Which isn't to say I wouldn't mind buying a pair of Veracity HT3s or SS8s from Salk: I simply can't afford it!)
Also, Russdawg is right in his comment about Ascend: for towers, they aren't "crush-it" big: 2ea 5-1/2" woofers where he maybe could've considered something bigger. For what they are, they should perform admirably, especially for music, and get loud enough, but then again...

This comes back to your goals:
% music to HT
critical music listening (active) or passive listening
preferred SPL
FR requirements/range
accuracy
neutral or colored
aesthetics
(if you want: soundstage and imaging)

 

[Russdawg1]

And this is very true: a good 2-way can beat a mediocre 3-way any day.
I think an important step is to really define your goals when shopping for speakers, especially if your goal is a pair of 'forever' speakers, which you would be OK with if you could never find something better. That's what I did.
I have my BMR's from Dennis/Philharmonic now, and Salk is finishing my Phil 3's. It is possible that I might never find better speakers to buy without spending a minimum of 2-3x the cost of these in any manner of upgrade. In a 5-channel setup, I will have the Phil 3s at L/R with Center and Surround BMRs.
If I had to redo my Phil 3 order, I would order from Salk for finished speakers, or buy the Illuminismo kit from Selah Audio to build out myself. Those were really the only options, matching my goals, which I could find without caveat or significant additional expenditure. (Which isn't to say I wouldn't mind buying a pair of Veracity HT3s or SS8s from Salk: I simply can't afford it!)
Also, Russdawg is right in his comment about Ascend: for towers, they aren't "crush-it" big: 2ea 5-1/2" woofers where he maybe could've considered something bigger. For what they are, they should perform admirably, especially for music, and get loud enough, but then again...

This comes back to your goals:
% music to HT
critical music listening (active) or passive listening
preferred SPL
FR requirements/range
accuracy
neutral or colored
aesthetics
(if you want: soundstage and imaging)

I’d like to see Dave put out another tower, in fact, similar to that Illuminismo kit you linked. Maybe even using that Seas Beryllium tweeter that costs more than a pair of Sierra Towers w/ Raal upgrade.

 

[ryanosaur]

I’d like to see Dave put out another tower, in fact, similar to that Illuminismo kit you linked. Maybe even using that Seas Beryllium tweeter that costs more than a pair of Sierra Towers w/ Raal upgrade.

Couldn't agree more.
I'm not one so completely sold on the Raal as an end-all/be-all driver. I find it quite exceptional, but am willing to be amazed. I know I saw it elsewhere that a compliment was paid to Dennis saying that he was able to make a dome tweeter sound so similar to the Raal that it was almost indistinguishable.

Those Be-Tweeters are supposed to be really good and are getting affordable now, and worth considering. I know Jim has them in some designs... uncertain if it is the same Rick is using. I suspect with Salk, Dennis probably did the XO work.

That Illuminismo is a straight SB Acoustics Satori driver set up. When I researched those drivers, I was pretty impressed overall with their specs. Enough that I would be willing to pay 3K for the 10 drivers, completed XOs, accessories and schematics. That's gonna be a very expensive pair when/if Rick puts them up on his site as finished speakers. His Finezza 3-way design is $7300. But the cabinet is tiny compared to the Illuminismo.

But Ascend, offering a Tower2, say, with two 8"woofers and an appropriately sized cabinet to hit 29Hz extension would be phenomenal. With or without the Raal.

 

[bradymartin]

man you guys dont make the decision easy for me.

music occasionally. i watch mainly movies, so lets say 100% movies and music randomly here and there
always will use a subwoofer

i do live about an hour away from ascend acoustics so maybe i should go take a listen. but then everything i read about raal is they are the best with music

 

[Danzilla31]

man you guys dont make the decision easy for me.

music occasionally. i watch mainly movies, so lets say 100% movies and music randomly here and there

i do live about an hour away from ascend acoustics so maybe i should go take a listen. but then everything i read about raal is they are the best with music

Hah hah I feel ya but it's an important decision so take your time even if you struggle with it all this effort will pay off you doing your due diligence now.

If it was me since I'm like you and do a LOT of movies

Klipsch all day long. Especially if I had the funds for the RF7III's they are great for both movies and music and for movies whoooo diggity your in for something beyond special

But all of these options are tough there all great options so take your time man. First World problems right?

 

[ryanosaur]

man you guys dont make the decision easy for me.

music occasionally. i watch mainly movies, so lets say 100% movies and music randomly here and there
always will use a subwoofer

i do live about an hour away from ascend acoustics so maybe i should go take a listen. but then everything i read about raal is they are the best with music

Oh. You want easy? Best Buy's got DefTech!
Ha!
Seriously... you can get to San Clemente in an hour? DO IT! Call and make an appointment. I was planning to drive 8 hours to go and audition their gear! I chose not to because of the Phil 3s.
I still like the idea of an accurate speaker for any sound reproduction. But if you're not into hard core critical listening, your choices really open up. If you have the chance to audition the Ascends, and compare to so many other speakers that you should be able to audition in the greater LA area, you are in a great place.

 

[bradymartin]

Oh. You want easy? Best Buy's got DefTech!
Ha!
Seriously... you can get to San Clemente in an hour? DO IT! Call and make an appointment. I was planning to drive 8 hours to go and audition their gear! I chose not to because of the Phil 3s.
I still like the idea of an accurate speaker for any sound reproduction. But if you're not into hard core critical listening, your choices really open up. If you have the chance to audition the Ascends, and compare to so many other speakers that you should be able to audition in the greater LA area, you are in a great place.

yeah i think im going to audition the ascends.

if the rf 7 iiis offered a pair of bookshelves id just put in my order now since i have a subwoofer. dont really need towers.
now you guys put some new kinks into my thinking talking about midrange now and 3 ways are better etc.

 

[ryanosaur]

yeah i think im going to audition the ascends.

if the rf 7 iiis offered a pair of bookshelves id just put in my order now since i have a subwoofer. dont really need towers.
now you guys put some new kinks into my thinking talking about midrange now and 3 ways are better etc.

First rule: your ears, your system, your dollars. But if you don’t do due diligence, then you’ll be shopping again in a few years!

The right 3-ways are better! But only you can determine what’s right for you.

Pick out some good music you really know to audition with. Preferably some things that will expose the flaws in a speaker: acoustic music with no amplification, male voice, female voice, piano, small jazz combo, orchestral... and I like to throw in something different: some good hip-hop or something electronic with strong bass and a lot of complex layers. But acoustic performances with male and female vocals will expose most flaws. And if a speaker can’t do that well, how can it do a movie well? Dialog, over scores, over sound effects?!
But try to use the same 3-5 songs in all auditions so you have a good comparison.

 

[Russdawg1]

Oh. You want easy? Best Buy's got DefTech!
Ha!
Seriously... you can get to San Clemente in an hour? DO IT! Call and make an appointment. I was planning to drive 8 hours to go and audition their gear! I chose not to because of the Phil 3s.
I still like the idea of an accurate speaker for any sound reproduction. But if you're not into hard core critical listening, your choices really open up. If you have the chance to audition the Ascends, and compare to so many other speakers that you should be able to audition in the greater LA area, you are in a great place.

I flew down there only to have Dave be sick on me

Planning to back this summer. Not flying

You should bring your Phil-3’s down and compare them! That’s something I’d definitely fly down to hear.

 

[shadyJ]

RAAL makes some magnificent tweeters, but I would only use them in a three-way speaker. The only speaker that Ascend makes that I would want with the RAAL tweeter is the three-way tower Sierra with upgraded RAAL tweeter. Other than that, I would stick with the dome tweeter from Ascend.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

yeah i think im going to audition the ascends.

if the rf 7 iiis offered a pair of bookshelves id just put in my order now since i have a subwoofer. dont really need towers.
now you guys put some new kinks into my thinking talking about midrange now and 3 ways are better etc.

Don’t need towers? Even above the XO point, towers(real ones) will give you a more dynamic presentation. Especially for movies. I’m watching jack ryan right now and I can’t imagine bookshelf speakers being able to carry the midrange weight of this track.(large room, 14’ from mains). Small room, maybe, but I’m not a fan of BS, speakers that is.