Need help putting together new 5.1 system

[JohnnieB]

I don't see a big enough performance jump to think that dual LV12s aren't the better choice for the same money.
Bigger budget, dual F15s.

Good music Ty.

 

[GIEGAR]

Here's a pic for you too Ty!

Brian Ding, Rythmik Audio owner, designer and builder with a Rythmik D15SE (c2010)​

 

[Ty Wayne]

Too funny GIEGAR!

So both of you would recommend that I sit tight and wait on the LV12R? And then, later down the road spend the extra $500 - $600 on a 2nd LV12R if I want? Am I understanding correctly?

Next question would be.....is my current receiver (Pioneer VSX-522-k) able to integrate a 2nd sub? Or would I need a new receiver? Too tired to look into it right now. I'll do that later tonight. If I need a new receiver, then I guess Im okay with that. I usually splurge on myself around this time every year. So next year, assuming I've not lost my hearing by then, I could look to add another LV12R and a new receiver. Sound good?

P.S.
Spent another few hours enjoying the new setup this am. Messed around with a few blu-rays, MLB The Show 2014, and then watched "Man on Fire". I love these Ascends more everyday....no joke! Truly, its like they sound better to me everyday! Im beyond pleased!!!

 

[JohnnieB]

If you haven't ordered the 12 yet, it's up to you. I would plan on getting dual subs at some point, so look at total cost, then decide how much you want to leverage your mortgage.
As far as you're receiver, it can run dual sub's. You split the signal from LFE out.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Yeah, I ordered the LV12R back when I ordered the rest. Its just that I thought they might be willing to cancel that order and apply that money towards a 15. However, Im going to just do what you two are recommending, and wait on the LV12R. Then, I might add another one later down the road. I had no idea that the signal coming out of the receiver could be split between two subs. Thanks for the info. I know my receiver is low end, but I guess its capable of much more than I initially gave it credit for. Would I need to change any of the settings on the receiver if I split the signal to two subs? I've never noticed anything in the manual or the setup menu about having two subs?

 

[JohnnieB]

I know my receiver is low end, but I guess its capable of much more than I initially gave it credit for.

If there's one thing in this whole thread that people, new to audio/electronics, should take away it is precisely that.
You don't have to have the latest, greatest, most expensive gear to have a nice, clean system. Take the time to educate yourselves.
This forum and the folks who post here, have taught me more in the short time Ive been here, than I had learned in 30 yrs of haphazardly buying what I thought was good.

You shouldn't have to change anything as far as the AVR settings.

 

[Ty Wayne]

So Rythmik is saying it will now be the end of Feb. or the beginning of March until the LV12R is available. Add shipping time, and Im possibly looking at the 2nd week of March before I get the LV12R! I don't really want to wait another month or more. At the same time, I don't know if want to cough up another $500 for a different sub (F15HP?). I am considering it though.

Which sub would you guys recommend if I stick with Rythmik? Either way, its going to cost me more money. Would anyone recommend the F12, which is $874, as opposed to the F15HP, which is $1074? I need suggestions. Thanks.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Awaiting to see if I can get out of my order of the LV12R from Ascend. If I can, Im thinking of going with HSU vtf-2 for basically the same amount I was going to spend on the LV12R. Would I be foolish to do this, or are either of these subs a good choice?

 

[JohnnieB]

So Rythmik is saying it will now be the end of Feb. or the beginning of March until the LV12R is available. Add shipping time, and Im possibly looking at the 2nd week of March before I get the LV12R! I don't really want to wait another month or more.

That's a bummer.

Looking at the LV12R vs F12, you get a cast basket on the driver and 14hz vs 19hz. You also get a lower Q down in the .5 range, plus another 70 watts. The 70 watts may not really amount to much. You're $300 would be getting something for your money. Each step adds a little something more.

I don't really see a huge performance difference between the F12 and the F15. Now, step up to the FV15HP and you get 600 watts plus port options, which may help you better tune it to your room.

HSU makes quality subs as well. I think they run pretty much neck and neck. Throw SVS in the lot and you have a pretty tight race between the big 3. It really comes down to budget.

That's my two centavos. Keep in mind, I have not heard any of them. I am going simply from specs and what I've read in reviews and testimonials. These are the options I see on paper.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Thanks JB, and yes, that helps. I've about talked myself into waiting for the LV12R. I could go with something that's comparable in price to the LV12R, but I don't know if I really want to do that. I do know that I cant really justify spending $300 to $500 more to step up right now. With my budget, I've already spent plenty over the past month with the 340's and 170's. So $500 to $600 bucs on a sub is about all Im willing to do right now, and I feel like the LV12R will suite me fine. Im just gonna try and be patient and hope for the best. If they push the date back even further, then I'll go another route. Thanks for your input.

 

[KEW]

I feel the LV12R is a pretty special sub. At $570, I don't think anything else can touch it for output and precision!
I have not heard it, but it has the output of a ported sub (the LV12R has greater output than the F12 despite power ratings) with the added precision of the servo.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Im with you KEW. While I've not heard it either, and I am very much a newbie at all of this, from everything I've read about the LV12R (a lot) and everything you guys have told me, its a very good deal and I'll be completely satisfied with it. Another reason I want to go ahead and get it is because I've done so much reading about it I feel like I already own it! LOL. I felt like I was starting all over once I began looking at other subs to buy yesterday. Im gonna sit tight and hope it comes the end of Feb/first of March.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I have never heard Rythmic subs myself, but I did hear hsu.
Another point is at least one ah member highly preferred hsu sub over Rythmic one after comparing them in home. I think right now (at least at 1k point) hsu subs are head and shoulders above any competition

 

[KEW]

[QUOTE="BoredSysAdmin, post: 1070267, member: 28046"I have never heard Rythmic subs myself, but I did hear hsu.
Another point is at least one ah member highly preferred hsu sub over Rythmic one after comparing them in home. I think right now (at least at 1k point) hsu subs are head and shoulders above any competition[/QUOTE]
I missed that. Can you link his comments?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

[QUOTE="BoredSysAdmin, post: 1070267, member: 28046"I have never heard Rythmic subs myself, but I did hear hsu.
Another point is at least one ah member highly preferred hsu sub over Rythmic one after comparing them in home. I think right now (at least at 1k point) hsu subs are head and shoulders above any competition

I missed that. Can you link his comments?[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure i could find it, but we can ask him himself as i was talking about Imcloud

 

[Ty Wayne]

I found this comment from Imcloud after doing a search. Not sure if this is what BoredSysAdmin is referring to or not?

"I prefer the HSu to the rythmic, I have heard them both the HSU seems sound more powerful, I didn't a/b them and didnt hear them both in the same room, and have much more experience with the hsu, but its what I bought so obviously what I thought sounded better..."

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/best-sub-for-my-money.86886/page-2#post-987781

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I found this comment from Imcloud after doing a search. Not sure if this is what BoredSysAdmin is referring to or not?

"I prefer the HSu to the rythmic, I have heard them both the HSU seems sound more powerful, I didn't a/b them and didnt hear them both in the same room, and have much more experience with the hsu, but its what I bought so obviously what I thought sounded better..."

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/best-sub-for-my-money.86886/page-2#post-987781

Let's ask him @ImcLoud

 

[KEW]

Okay, I found the thread that you are likely talking about:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/no-no-no-rythmik-12-what-a-nightmare.87087/

Sounds like his main problem is that the output was not what he hoped for (heard popping type noises).

The Rythmik site puts the LV12R's 20Hz output at 7dB below the FV15HP:

Output comparison
At 20 Hz, our subs vary in their maximum output capability. The output at 20 Hz is shown relative to F12.

• F12: 0db (baseline)
• F8: -1.5db
• LV12R: +2.5db
• E15HP: + 3.5db
• F15HP: +4db
• FV15HP: +9.5db
• F25: +8db

Josh Ricci's review (data table below) puts the FV15HP at just over 108 dB which puts the LV12R at 101dB.

I cannot find a way to get a similar number for the Hsu (Hsu provides "burst" levels and the ones I cites are RMS values, which I understand as being sustained), but 101dB at 20Hz seems pretty decent for a $570 sub. I still think the Rythmik offers more accuracy (and would consider it relevant that Jman also thinks this is very accurate since he has heard so many). Imcloud's complaints were about output and rumble. I get that - it would definitely be the first thing you would notice ... and either he got a defective Rythmik or he really likes to push them hard...or both.

Looking at the data table for RMS at 20Hz the $650 Outlaw LFM-1 EX is very close at 101dB when tuned to 25Hz and 102.1dB when tuned to 18Hz. The Outlaw had been around for a long time and I believe is respected as one of the most powerful subs for it's price. I have never heard anyone feel that the LF1-EX was not capable in output the way Imcloud feels the LV12R is not, so I kind of think he may have gotten a defective sub or some other issue.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachments/audioholics-excel-compilation_041014-pdf.13565/

Note: I have made comparisons and inferences across data sources. I am no expert on data comparison or test methodology. Please educate me if there is a reason the dB change at 20Hz cited by Rythmik might not be applicable to the RMS 20Hz output measured by Ricci et.al.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

KEW, just for reference - you do know that Outlaw subs are based on older HSU designs? aka LFM-1 EX is likely based on VTF-3 MK2 (pure guess on last part)

I'm also not saying that ether sub is bad. Rythik has cornered the servo subwoofers corner, which apparently no one else does. Servo system can and probably does provide great benefits controlling distortion at bay.

Is servo required to produce accurate bass? I'm not sure 100%, but SVS subs for example are a textbook flat line, and they do it by EQing, not servo.

The beatuty of HSU VTF subs is that they can wear many hats in same box aka play as sealed or as ported sub - depends on personal preferences and room integration.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Thanks KEW for finding that discussion. I just got finished reading the whole thread and it doesn't sound very definitive to me that the vtf2 is "head and shoulders" above the LV12R. It sounds more like one guy (ImcLoud) prefers the vtf-2. Im also a bit confused because on page one of that discussion, ImcLoud said that he had two friends who had heard both subs and they liked the vtf-2 also. But then on page two of the discussion, ImcLoud says:

"The rythmic is a fine sub {LFE issues aside} and worth the price, I personally prefer the vtf2, and I have yet to hear from another person that heard both in the same room or who has heard both for that matter?"

So I dunno? Sounds to me like its a personal preference. The vtf2 may perform a bit better, but I don't think saying its head and shoulders above the LV12R is that accurate of a statement after reading that discussion.

But you know what? I haven't heard either of them! So I wont know the difference, and after 15 years of listening to my old POS 8" Kenwood (SW-32HT), I think Im gonna be pretty freakin happy with the LV12R!