Need advice picking 5.1 system with 1500 budget

B

Brettc

Audioholic
Do yourself another favor and run at least 4 cat6 Ethernet cables any room you can


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zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I think my first step it to improve with a new set of bookshelves (3) at the 1k mark at some point to see if I can squeeze some more awesome out of this setup up without breaking the bank.
I have owned the SuperOne 2.1 speakers .... while they were OK for movies, they had to leave

Look at Canton Chrono, and will be in another league compared to what you have and real good price
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/cantchrono513blka/canton-chrono-513-7-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-black-pair/1.html

Center with a raised tweeter ... a real good price
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/cantchronosl556.2blka/canton-chrono-sl-556.2-6-3-way-channel-speaker-black/1.html

But I would still consider buying 2 pair of the 513 speakers and use one as a center .... at the price it would be worth having an extra speaker.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Also, not sure you saw this detail in the reviews but the HSU gain knob is pretty sensitive. On my VTF2 just a small change is significant. I believe the VTF3 might be like that too.
I can confirm that. The gain knob is very jumpy on mine too.
 
T

TD4W

Audioholic Intern
I used the audessey calibration to set things originally, but I find that I have to increase the input to the center channel sometimes as high as +6. and this woks pretty well for some things. During calibration the sub ended up a few degrees less than straight up, call it 45% gain.. This is often too much I find so I reduced this input via remote call it -10 so that is what I have going on and it works for me at this point. (I've even just turned the gain down to like 33% manually on sub) so I wouldn't say I prefer bass heavy sound. Its awesome except when its getting in the way of hearing other stuff. Note: the sub isn't far from where I sit, say 3 ft, front stage is like 15 ft, so this could be a big part of it. Sub was on front wall to the right of the LCR, but I moved it to the right rear (3 ft from me) and re-calibrated it. The move was to make room for other stuff in the room and aesthetics. Acoustically I don't prefer it but I'm making due.

All I'm getting at with my original question about future options is that it seems like my sub has a lot more head room and the center/(front stage) is often lacking. sometimes i wish more content was run through the other fronts. Seems a ton of content runs (like 80%) through the one center speaker.. Is what it is!
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I used the audessey calibration to set things originally, but I find that I have to increase the input to the center channel sometimes as high as +6. and this woks pretty well for some things. During calibration the sub ended up a few degrees less than straight up, call it 45% gain.. This is often too much I find so I reduced this input via remote call it -10 so that is what I have going on and it works for me at this point. (I've even just turned the gain down to like 33% manually on sub) so I wouldn't say I prefer bass heavy sound. Its awesome except when its getting in the way of hearing other stuff. Note: the sub isn't far from where I sit, say 3 ft, front stage is like 15 ft, so this could be a big part of it. Sub was on front wall to the right of the LCR, but I moved it to the right rear (3 ft from me) and re-calibrated it. The move was to make room for other stuff in the room and aesthetics. Acoustically I don't prefer it but I'm making due.

All I'm getting at with my original question about future options is that it seems like my sub has a lot more head room and the center/(front stage) is often lacking. sometimes i wish more content was run through the other fronts. Seems a ton of content runs (like 80%) through the one center speaker.. Is what it is!
I would try backing off the gain to try 35% etc to see if you like that better.
 
T

TD4W

Audioholic Intern
I did, I mention I ended up turning it down to like 33% approximately a 1/3rd in the previous post. That is where its been for the last 3 months. Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't exactly super clear.

At the moment I think things are fine, I don't want to come across like something is glaringly terrible. Just looking for ways to improve..., and I think improving the LCR is where I need to head at some point here.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I used the audessey calibration to set things originally, but I find that I have to increase the input to the center channel sometimes as high as +6. and this woks pretty well for some things. During calibration the sub ended up a few degrees less than straight up, call it 45% gain.. This is often too much I find so I reduced this input via remote call it -10 so that is what I have going on and it works for me at this point. (I've even just turned the gain down to like 33% manually on sub) so I wouldn't say I prefer bass heavy sound. Its awesome except when its getting in the way of hearing other stuff. Note: the sub isn't far from where I sit, say 3 ft, front stage is like 15 ft, so this could be a big part of it. Sub was on front wall to the right of the LCR, but I moved it to the right rear (3 ft from me) and re-calibrated it. The move was to make room for other stuff in the room and aesthetics. Acoustically I don't prefer it but I'm making due.

All I'm getting at with my original question about future options is that it seems like my sub has a lot more head room and the center/(front stage) is often lacking. sometimes i wish more content was run through the other fronts. Seems a ton of content runs (like 80%) through the one center speaker.. Is what it is!
Depending on what I'm watching I'll add 4 to 6 dB to my center channel so to me that's pretty normal. As for your bass It almost sounds like something is wrong. If it's set correctly that sub should not be drowning out the other speakers. I have 2 of them and they didn't overpower my bookshelf speakers or my little DefTech ProMonitor1000's (which are currently part of a small stereo setup in my office).

One thing I just now discovered while navigating menus is when I went into "Subwoofer Level Adjust" and turned it on things got boomy and overpowering. If you have Denon/Marantz you could try going into the menus and make sure it is "Off". When I adjust my sub levels I go in with the "Option" button, then "Channel
Level Adjust" and do it from there. I never use the sub adjust under the "Audio" menu and leave it off.

I'm assuming you're auto calibrating and setting levels with... was it Audyssey XT32? I forget and started typing already and don't wanna go back, lol. Also, I'm sure you saw it, but just in case, Hsu does recommend calibrating in sealed mode with both ports plugged and EQ set to 1. The gains for both of my subs are ~25 - 30% and my receiver set the trim at -9.5, which is a good spot to be. Then I added another +5 dB to each and they're smooth and musical, not boomy or overpowering at all.

You did mention location and that can have a huge impact on what you hear. If you're close to a wall or in a corner things can get boomy. Oh! Have you tried plugging one or both ports? That's one of the pluses with the VTF (Variable Tuning Frequency) series. Gives you some flexibility and options.

I know you said it's sounding pretty good, but I'm still getting a vibe from you that things could maybe be a little better and believe me, I can relate with that. I wanna help you get your system dialed in so it puts a smile on your face every time you use it! If I think of anything else I'll pop back in and let you know. Sub position is probably gonna be the key so you could try finding another spot, but check on that sub adjust I mentioned above real quick too. When I turned mine "On" it was enough to make me cringe, lol.
 
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T

TD4W

Audioholic Intern
Thanks for the tip on the "subwoofer volumn control", mine was on. I'll keep messing around. How can I find my trim level?

"Look at Canton Chrono, and will be in another league compared to what you have and real good price
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...3-7-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-black-pair/1.html"

I was looking at polk M703 on sale for $259.. is the polk a better option than above linked speaker? Similar, hard to know without hearing them both.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for the tip on the "subwoofer volumn control", mine was on. I'll keep messing around. How can I find my trim level?

"Look at Canton Chrono, and will be in another league compared to what you have and real good price
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...3-7-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-black-pair/1.html"

I was looking at polk M703 on sale for $259.. is the polk a better option than above linked speaker? Similar, hard to know without hearing them both.
Press the "Setup" button, then go to "Speakers"/Manual Setup/Levels/Test Tone Start and you can view your trim levels.

Did turning the volume control off make a big difference? It did with me. If yours was on I totally get why you were having issues. When I turned mine on they did indeed overpower everything and sounded... not good, lol.
 
T

TD4W

Audioholic Intern
The "trim" you reference is the value under the channel channel level adjust menu?

Also while checking out my last audessey32 set I realized the distance assigned the sub was wrong, 15.5ft, which is from the old set up. A little messing around this morning has it dialed in better for sure. I was just lazy and didn't look into any of this stuff until you gave me the tips..lol. I've been in the menus not long ago and didn't even realize the errors in there.

BUT, even though things are sounding great, even better than before, doesnt it seem like a sub running at 30%gain is leaving a lot of room to grow on the table relative to the rest of the speakers? I think this is where my head was when I asked about the front stage improvement. Not that anything now is bad, but just the sub is a beast and has to be dialed back so much relative to the rest of the set up. Or maybe this is the wrong mindset all together?? I know gain is not the end all be all.
I've convinced myself this fron stage needs a kick in the pants soon. All I'm saying.
Thanks everyone as usual for the help/input!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Also to reiterate, I don't adjust my speakers from the trim menu. I do that with the "Option" button, then "Channel Level Adjust". That seems the most straightforward and easiest way to do it IME.

20190811_090259-816x459.jpg
 
T

TD4W

Audioholic Intern
Test tones, why didn't I think of that.. lol. Got it. -7 is where mine has been.

I think I'm going to do a whole new audessey set up and then tinker based on above tips.

Maybe tomorrow, I think it's time to go kayaking!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
The "trim" you reference is the value under the channel channel level adjust menu?

Also while checking out my last audessey32 set I realized the distance assigned the sub was wrong, 15.5ft, which is from the old set up. A little messing around this morning has it dialed in better for sure. I was just lazy and didn't look into any of this stuff until you gave me the tips..lol. I've been in the menus not long ago and didn't even realize the errors in there.

BUT, even though things are sounding great, even better than before, doesnt it seem like a sub running at 30%gain is leaving a lot of room to grow on the table relative to the rest of the speakers? I think this is where my head was when I asked about the front stage improvement. Not that anything now is bad, but just the sub is a beast and has to be dialed back so much relative to the rest of the set up. Or maybe this is the wrong mindset all together?? I know gain is not the end all be all.
I've convinced myself this fron stage needs a kick in the pants soon. All I'm saying.
Thanks everyone as usual for the help/input!
I go to "Options" only to manually adjust.

Subwoofer distances often don't match actual measured distance. It's more about timing so that all frequencies are reaching your ear at about the same time. My receiver added 2 feet to mine.

Having your sub dialed back is not a bad thing. That means it's not straining or running hot. Like I said, the gains on mine are only at 25-30% and that's where I like it. Plenty of room for dynamic peaks.

I took some pics to show you where to check trim levels (what your receiver set).

20190811_090618-816x459.jpg
20190811_090633-816x459.jpg
20190811_090642-816x459.jpg
20190811_090652-816x459.jpg


That's where I go to check trim levels. I do not manually adjust from there.
 
T

TD4W

Audioholic Intern
Yep, I'm following.
On a day to day if I need to make a tweak it's with the options level adjust.

Do you use dialogue adjust? On?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Yep, I'm following.
On a day to day if I need to make a tweak it's with the options level adjust.

Do you use dialogue adjust? On?
Nope. I leave it off too. All through options to manually adjust. You have to be playing material that sends info to your center channel while going through options or it won't show a center in that menu.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Almost too many ways to mess with input levels. Lol
Right!? I agree!

The options, when set at zero do not add or remove anything. The level adjusts, when at zero, cancels out the trim levels your receiver set. It's just... messy, IMO. Options is straightforward. +5 is +5. Going with +5 using the level adjusts is more like adding +14 in my setup (for subs). I just don't mess with it.
 
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