My very first Amplifier & I need help!

[Adam41591]

Setting the speakers to small will definitely make a difference and I suspect it may solve the issue entirely. Your room is not too big for Betas in a 2.1 bookshelf system.

On the subject of receivers, The reason I chose it was simply because Accessories4less sells it as a factory refurb. I have bought two receivers and two CD players from them and all have been excellent. I actually returned a receiver (which I mistakenly thought was defective) and was amazed at how easy the process was (they didn't treat me like I was trying to "cheat" them). I realized later that I misunderstood how the settings were supposed to work. If you search this forum for Accessories4less, you will find lots of posts from happy buyers.

A4L also sells Onkyo, which is a good manufacturer of receivers, However, among the currently available offerings, I felt the Marantz offered better value - it is an extremely capable unit for that price! The HK units are also good (you just have the misfortune of getting one of their "economy" units), and, I have to say that they do look slick - with the the blue volume knob. If you want to upgrade and stick with HK, there is "Harman Audio" on ebay. However, I'm not sure of they sell HT receivers. All I see today are stereo receivers.
http://stores.ebay.com/Harman-Audio

Cheers,
Kurt

I'm gonna try living with the speakers set to small for a few days, but I'm pretty sure that should help a lot. I didn't realize that setting it to large used much more power, duh. I was wondering though, do different receivers & different brands sound different, or is the sound quality more dependent on your speakers? You have to admit, when the audio magazines start talking about $1000 or more cables, it's tough for me believe everything they say. Now I understand the more you spend, you will be getting better build quality, but the way they throw figures around is a little tough to swallow. Am I wrong? It comes across a bit pretentious. Maybe I'm mistaken, I don't know. What's your take? Anyway, thanks so much for all the help you've given, really guys it makes such a difference.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm gonna try living with the speakers set to small for a few days, but I'm pretty sure that should help a lot. I didn't realize that setting it to large used much more power, duh. I was wondering though, do different receivers & different brands sound different, or is the sound quality more dependent on your speakers? You have to admit, when the audio magazines start talking about $1000 or more cables, it's tough for me believe everything they say. Now I understand the more you spend, you will be getting better build quality, but the way they throw figures around is a little tough to swallow. Am I wrong? It comes across a bit pretentious. Maybe I'm mistaken, I don't know. What's your take? Anyway, thanks so much for all the help you've given, really guys it makes such a difference.

Speakers are dominant on the sound of a system. The amplifier does determine to a large degree the clean spl from a given speaker.

Only very good loudspeakers, will resolve differences in other parts of the audio chain generally.

 

[anamorphic96]

The HK 146 is more than capable in a room that size. Set the speakers to small and set the crossover point at 80hz in the HK. Turn the crossover on the sub all the way up or turn it off and let the receiver do the crossover.

You have some great gear and a new receiver in that room will gain you nothing. The HK is more than enough.

One thing you might want to pick up is an spl meter at Radio shack to level match the sub to the speakers. This will help you blend the speakers with the sub.

More over it seems you are discovering how bad most music is recorded today. If it's recorded bad it's gonna sound bad. Especially when you get good gear. But boy is it great when something is recorded well.

 

[Adam41591]

The HK 146 is more than capable in a room that size. Set the speakers to small and set the crossover point at 80hz in the HK. Turn the crossover on the sub all the way up or turn it off and let the receiver do the crossover.

You have some great gear and a new receiver in that room will gain you nothing. The HK is more than enough.

One thing you might want to pick up is an spl meter at Radio shack to level match the sub to the speakers. This will help you blend the speakers with the sub.

More over it seems you are discovering how bad most music is recorded today. If it's recorded bad it's gonna sound bad. Especially when you get good gear. But boy is it great when something is recorded well.

After listening to everyones fantastic advice, including setting the speakers to small, I'm sure I hear a much improved sound. I'm also ordering a Subdude riser, but before I purchased I wanted to try out a improvised riser made out of books for stand, a piece of MDF for the top covered with a a heavy fabric. Wow!! I really don't feel the need to upgrade anymore. I'm placing my order for the Subdude in the next couple of days and I cannot wait. On to what you just mentioned, about the crossover point & where to set it, that might take a little while to get the settings just right. Any recommendations on what to listen to while testing?

Also, will an SPL meter really make much of a difference? I think my sub is set at the right volume, but then again...

Anyway thanks so much to all of you, I'm so glad I posted my question. And to think I was just going to order the Emotiva amp without thinking. Phew!

 

[T2T]

Since I've owned the Beta 20s in the past, another thing came to mind. The grills are metal with peforations in them to let the sound through. Also, on the inside of the grill is a thin layer of cloth that protects the speakers from dust getting in, etc. You might want to run the speakers with the grills off - just to see how the sound changes. I'm sure Infinity voiced the speakers to probably sound better with the grills on - but, in your case, you might find the opposite to be true.

 

[Adam41591]

Since I've owned the Beta 20s in the past, another thing came to mind. The grills are metal with peforations in them to let the sound through. Also, on the inside of the grill is a thin layer of cloth that protects the speakers from dust getting in, etc. You might want to run the speakers with the grills off - just to see how the sound changes. I'm sure Infinity voiced the speakers to probably sound better with the grills on - but, in your case, you might find the opposite to be true.

I started leaving the grills off a few months ago actually. The sound is a slightly more detailed, then again it could be more the placebo effect. BTW, how would you rate the Beta 20's, I think for my first setup it was a solid choice. Your thoughts on them?

 

[T2T]

I started leaving the grills off a few months ago actually. The sound is a slightly more detailed, then again it could be more the placebo effect. BTW, how would you rate the Beta 20's, I think for my first setup it was a solid choice. Your thoughts on them?

I liked mine when I had them - along with the C360 center channel speaker. I've owned so many speakers, I actually can't remember what I bought after the Betas. However, I did see some listed about a month ago on Craigslist for $50 a pair (the backs of the cabinets had holes drilled in them for mounting) - and, I almost sprang for them - just to try them again and see how my perceptions of them changed.

Now, I'm running Monitor Audio RS6s - which I'm very pleased with. I don't see any upgrades in my future due to contentment.

 

[Adam41591]

I just listened to some classical cds I forgot I had (Schubert, Beethoven) & The National's cd "The Boxer". They sound like how cds should sound. The drums in The Boxer are just fantastic, a nice healthy boom & snap. I'm starting to realize my problem doesn't lie in my gear, just the terrible loudness & harsh sounds of so many cds. The fact that I can easily hear the difference between well mastered albums and terrible ones makes me think I made the right choice in the Betas. Anyway, thanks for all the help guys.

Is there a thread on the site that list dynamic & nicely mastered albums, modern & old? I'm starting to realize music is so much more "alive" when it's not so poorly mixed.

 

[KEW]

Thanks for teh follow up!

One interesting concept is that your speakers may be producing sound quality as good as your room will allow. If there are lots of reflections and you crank it, things can get pretty jumbled.
I remember in college (with cinder block walls in the dorm), I plastered a wall by throwing wet toilet paper on it (which adheres and dries). It sounded really good for the week I had it before the RA made me get rid of it (fire code concerns). If you are so inclined, you might play with hanging heavy blankets on the wall(s).

The general wisdom is that speakers and room acoustics are the biggest factors on sound quality (aside from recoding quality) and choice of amp or CD player is much less significant.

 

[Adam41591]

Thanks for teh follow up!

One interesting concept is that your speakers may be producing sound quality as good as your room will allow. If there are lots of reflections and you crank it, things can get pretty jumbled.
I remember in college (with cinder block walls in the dorm), I plastered a wall by throwing wet toilet paper on it (which adheres and dries). It sounded really good for the week I had it before the RA made me get rid of it (fire code concerns). If you are so inclined, you might play with hanging heavy blankets on the wall(s).

The general wisdom is that speakers and room acoustics are the biggest factors on sound quality (aside from recoding quality) and choice of amp or CD player is much less significant.

Well pretty soon I'm going to be getting a bed with a fabric headboard, so would that change the how I hear things? Don't get me wrong, It's not like the sound is overly harsh. Just that occasionally it seems "slightly" unnatural. BTW, here's the bed I'm looking at if you don't know what I mean.

http://www.restorationhardware.com/rh/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod1152003&navCount=3

Thanks for all your help guys!

 

[T2T]

Is there a thread on the site that list dynamic & nicely mastered albums, modern & old? I'm starting to realize music is so much more "alive" when it's not so poorly mixed.

I'm not aware of such a thead. However, in the past, I've come across threads over at AudioCircle where people list their demo discs that they pack along when they're heading out to audition speakers. One of those threads might lead you towards some information you're looking for.

 

[KEW]

Well pretty soon I'm going to be getting a bed with a fabric headboard, so would that change the how I hear things? Don't get me wrong, It's not like the sound is overly harsh. Just that occasionally it seems "slightly" unnatural. BTW, here's the bed I'm looking at if you don't know what I mean.

http://www.restorationhardware.com/rh/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod1152003&navCount=3

Thanks for all your help guys!

That would help, assuming you currently have wood or bare sheet rock above your bed. Location matters as well. The sound absorbers are most effective if they are located at the primary reflection between you and the speaker. For example, if you point a flashlight from where your ears are in listening position then locate a mirror on the floor so that the reflected light beam hits the speaker drivers, this would be the ideal position for a throw rug (if you have hardwood floors). The same notion goes for the walls and ceiling. Another sweet spot is right behind you so you don't get the sound reflected back from the wall behind you. However as a general principal, anything which deadens reflections (most fabrics) or disperses them (like people, plants, or a multifaceted shape such as a wicker basket) is going to help regardless of where they are.
Being glass, windows are bad reflectors and you will notice improvement by lowering blinds and turning them at 45° to horizontal, but you would get more goody from draperies and valences.
There are purpose made sound absorbers (called "acoustic treatments" if you want to google), but I'm assuming you are on a budget and they are pricey, not to mention not always the most accepted thing to put on the wall (they are not ugly, YMMV, but in my case, if we are going to put something on the wall, my wife wants it to look decidedly good - consequently we have agreed that she has an elevated budget should she come across a tapestry or other absorbent wall hanging she likes!).
HTH

 

[KEW]

Is there a thread on the site that list dynamic & nicely mastered albums, modern & old? I'm starting to realize music is so much more "alive" when it's not so poorly mixed.

If you find such a thread or site, let me know about it!
Here is a thread along a similar vein which offers some useful info:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58317&highlight=cds

 

[Adam41591]

That would help, assuming you currently have wood or bare sheet rock above your bed. Location matters as well. The sound absorbers are most effective if they are located at the primary reflection between you and the speaker. For example, if you point a flashlight from where your ears are in listening position then locate a mirror on the floor so that the reflected light beam hits the speaker drivers, this would be the ideal position for a throw rug (if you have hardwood floors). The same notion goes for the walls and ceiling. Another sweet spot is right behind you so you don't get the sound reflected back from the wall behind you. However as a general principal, anything which deadens reflections (most fabrics) or disperses them (like people, plants, or a multifaceted shape such as a wicker basket) is going to help regardless of where they are.
Being glass, windows are bad reflectors and you will notice improvement by lowering blinds and turning them at 45° to horizontal, but you would get more goody from draperies and valences.
There are purpose made sound absorbers (called "acoustic treatments" if you want to google), but I'm assuming you are on a budget and they are pricey, not to mention not always the most accepted thing to put on the wall (they are not ugly, YMMV, but in my case, if we are going to put something on the wall, my wife wants it to look decidedly good - consequently we have agreed that she has an elevated budget should she come across a tapestry or other absorbent wall hanging she likes!).
HTH

I currently have Plantation shutters on my window, so I'm not sure how curtains are gonna look. BTW, I just finished watching Kill Bill Volume 2 and all I can say after changing the speakers is...Oh...my...god. The track that plays at the end over the actor titles, the spanish guitar one, sounded amazing. There is a part when B.B.'s title along with Uma Thurman's comes on the screen, when theres a huge climax with guitars and it sounded huge & yet my speakers weren't straining at all. Thanks so much guys, I can't tell you what an enormous difference I'm hearing. Also, if anyone is looking for a perfect 10 inch subwoofer, I HIGHLY recommend the Velodyne Impact-10. But make sure you buy a Sub-riser, something like the SubDude.

Anyway, I can't tell you how glad I started this thread. Its like my speakers are in color after being in White & Black!

 

[T2T]

Is there a thread on the site that list dynamic & nicely mastered albums, modern & old? I'm starting to realize music is so much more "alive" when it's not so poorly mixed.

I've come across one such thread that discusses "demo" music to play to show off one's system or speakers. Possibly, you'll find some "jewels" in the various posts of this thread.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=63936.0