Musical subwoofer(s) for $3k or so

[asbestos]

Hello there gents and ladies. I'm in the market for one or more subwoofers, with an approximate budget of $3k exclusive of shipping. I've been considering a pair of Hsu ULS 15's or a Def Tech Trinity... not sure where to go.

The sub or subs will be used exclusively for music on a 2 channel system. I listen mostly to alternative and rock, with some electronic. I also have three rap songs I would like to use to show off the system, but I do not listen to rap for any other reason. Lol.

The room I'm putting them in is basically a loft room in a house. Not ideal space.

I'm looking for something that can really add punch to the mids and lows. I'm currently running a pair of Polk SDA 2's with a Carver 1.5t. They're great at everything except bass.

If I err, I'd rather err on the side of too much bass and dial it down. I do NOT want buyer's remorse for something not powerful enough.

Again, this is on a 2 channel system and will never, ever be used for home theater. It's solely for music, and I'm looking for something that will really knock my socks off.

Suggestions?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would get dual Funk 18.0 TSAD Unpowered subs @ $2050 shipped each.

 

[Hyrlyfrm]

Dual-SB13-Ultra - SVS

 

[shadyJ]

I would be looking at the Hsu ULS duals, a Seaton Submersive, or a maybe a pair of Rythmik F15HPs. If you don't mind a more utilitarian aesthetic you might also consider a pair of Power Sound Audio XS30s. If you want something really insane, look at the JTR Captivator S2 for extreme SPLs. Funk subs would be great as well.

 

[ImcLoud]

ULS15 dual drive all the way, or build something yourself...
I have been kicking around the idea of-
a pair of these Dayton Audio UM12-22 12" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohm Per Co 295-512
with one of these to power them Amazon.com: Crown XLS2500 Power Amplifier with Integrated PureBand Crossover System and PeakX Limiters: Musical Instruments
and there are a few choices for enclosures, I got a price of $550 for a pair of them painted gloss black, with a 1.5" bottom baffle, 1" walls, with spikes, and dual binding posts {so you can change how you wire them with out removing the sub 1 ohm, 2 ohm, or 4 ohm}.

So the total would be under $1500, but you would have 1200 watts of bass RMS!!!! Most likely, not going to find that anywhere with such a high quality amp and sub set or enclosure for that matter {depending on who does your build}...

If you didnt want to get involved in that I would go with the uls15 dual drive, because I have heard it and its a nice system....

PS the nice thing about DIY besides the price is that you can have your box builder do what ever you want my guy said for an extra $100 he would veneer them, then the possibilities are endless Brookside Veneers Exotic Veneers Wood Veneer Wood Veneers

 

[its phillip]

I would be looking at the Hsu ULS duals, a Seaton Submersive, or a maybe a pair of Rythmik F15HPs. If you don't mind a more utilitarian aesthetic you might also consider a pair of Power Sound Audio XS30s. If you want something really insane, look at the JTR Captivator S2 for extreme SPLs. Funk subs would be great as well.

I agree with this

 

[jp_over]

I would get dual Funk 18.0 TSAD Unpowered subs @ $2050 shipped each.

I'm interested in this question too - dual subs for a 100% music system. Why unpowered over the powered version - more control perhaps? I've been toying around with either 2 x Rythmik F15HPs or 2 x Funky Waves 18.0C. Part of me also wonders if 2 x 18"s would be overkill for music only. In short, subscribed!

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have some rather different advice for you to consider. Forget about showing off your system with rap crap. Get rid of the SDA-2s, forget about subs, and spend your budget on a pair of better main speakers, like the Philharmonic 2s or 3s. Probably the 3s, since you want deeper bass.

Another idea would be to pursue some used speakers on Audiogon. There are several Legacy Audio Focus speakers of various vintages for sale for $3K or less. The Legacies have two or three 12" drivers per speaker, depending on the version. I see a Dunlavy SCIV pair for $2500, Revel F52s for $3500, and even a Linkwitz Orion 3.3.1 system, complete with ATI 6012 amp, for $3500.

I know I'm ignoring your original question, but I really think you could get a much better system overall by replacing the Polks. Speakers have come a long, long way since they were designed. (And so has Polk.) Something to think about.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm interested in this question too - dual subs for a 100% music system. Why unpowered over the powered version - more control perhaps? I've been toying around with either 2 x Rythmik F15HPs or 2 x Funky Waves 18.0C. Part of me also wonders if 2 x 18"s would be overkill for music only. In short, subscribed!

I don't think it's overkill at all. My room is only 15' x 18' x 15' and I don't think my dual Funk 18.0 is overkill for music.

Why unpowered over powered? I can think of a few reasons.

1. Price. Dual powered 18.0 is ~ $6400. Dual unpowered 18.0 is ~ $4000.

2. Amps are cool. I love using my own amps. If I had Krell, I would use Krell to power my Funk 18.0. I feel confident that amps like ATI, Parasound, Adcom, NAD, Outlaw, Sunfire, Rotel, etc, are better quality than any plate amps inside subs, which are no better than pro amps. My dual Funk 18.0 are powered by my AT3002 amp (450WPC/ 4 ohms).

3. Pro amps are cheap. A Crown XLS 1500 (550 WPC, no EQ, w/ Limiter) is $350 new, much less used. A new Crown XTi 1002 is $448 (500 WPC w/ EQ & Limiter). I never use active EQ for subs or speakers (except Orion, but it is set to default/ flat). And I see no reason to use more than 500 WPC for myself. My previous Rythmik subs had like 450watts and I always turned off the EQ and Limiter.

4. I've seen enough people with blown internal sub amps who ended up having to wait weeks to get replacements.

5. Some expensive flagship subs actually use unpowered subs w/ external amps, like the $15,000 Focal Utopia sub and the new Flagship Funk 18.2 sub.

6. I don't like the feeling of putting an amp inside or attached to a big vibrating sub. External amps can have better ventilation and less physical vibration.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I don't think it's overkill at all. My room is only 15' x 18' x 15' and I don't think my dual Funk 18.0 is overkill for music.

Why unpowered over powered? I can think of a few reasons.

1. Price. Dual powered 18.0 is ~ $6400. Dual unpowered 18.0 is ~ $4000.

2. Amps are cool. I love using my own amps. If I had Krell, I would use Krell to power my Funk 18.0. I feel confident that amps like ATI, Parasound, Adcom, NAD, Outlaw, Sunfire, Rotel, etc, are better quality than any plate amps inside subs, which are no better than pro amps. My dual Funk 18.0 are powered by my AT3002 amp (450WPC/ 4 ohms).

3. Pro amps are cheap. A Crown XLS 1500 (550 WPC, no EQ, w/ Limiter) is $350 new, much less used. A new Crown XTi 1002 is $448 (500 WPC w/ EQ & Limiter). I never use active EQ for subs or speakers (except Orion, but it is set to default/ flat). And I see no reason to use more than 500 WPC for myself. My previous Rythmik subs had like 450watts and I always turned off the EQ and Limiter.

4. I've seen enough people with blown internal sub amps who ended up having to wait weeks to get replacements.

5. Some expensive flagship subs actually use unpowered subs w/ external amps, like the $15,000 Focal Utopia sub and the new Flagship Funk 18.2 sub.

6. I don't like the feeling of putting an amp inside or attached to a big vibrating sub. External amps can have better ventilation and less physical vibration.

I think ADTG makes some reasonable points here. The only point on which I differ is that I use the DSP EQ in my sub, and I think it makes my system sound *a lot* better.

Whether or not EQ will be important to you depends on two factors, IMO. First, your room. Some rooms are a lot better than others for supporting good bass, and my room stinks. Really stinks. I have a ridiculously strong mode at about 53Hz, and a couple of suck-outs lower and higher in frequency. My room is so bad it screws up the bass response of Salon2s, which have great bass. When I measure the differences at my listening seat with and without EQ the difference is dramatic, and the sound is far better with EQ.

The second factor is whether or not you're going to invest in measurement tools, like REW or OmniMic. I've come to the opinion that unless you're going to use sophisticated measuring tools you might be doing more harm than good with DSP. Of course, if you do use these tools they can produce amazing results combined with EQ and good subwoofer placement.

Perhaps that is a third factor, at least to be realistic about. IMO, if you're just going to put a sub or two in a specific place because those are the only places you can put them, I think EQ becomes more important. I've found sub placement to be a PITA, and differences of even an inch or two, at least in my room, made a big difference.

Remember, big bass is not necessarily good bass, at least for music.

 

[jp_over]

Gentlemen - excellent points. Financially, two F15s is the no brainer. However, in making a case for one or two unamplified FW 18s, I do happen to have 2 x Yamaha P2500s amps just "sitting around looking for work to do..."

I reviewed REW briefly a year or so ago and found it a bit difficult for an amateur. However, since I don't have much flex on location (wife's aesthetic requirements), I might need to look into something more user friendly like OmniMic (some of the reviews on Parts Express make it look promising). We move every few years or so and placement / rooms will always be a variable (until retirement at least). However, at this point I would also need a DSP...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Gentlemen - excellent points. Financially, two F15s is the no brainer. However, in making a case for one or two unamplified FW 18s, I do happen to have 2 x Yamaha P2500s amps just "sitting around looking for work to do..."

I reviewed REW briefly a year or so ago and found it a bit difficult for an amateur. However, since I don't have much flex on location (wife's aesthetic requirements), I might need to look into something more user friendly like OmniMic (some of the reviews on Parts Express make it look promising). We move every few years or so and placement / rooms will always be a variable (until retirement at least). However, at this point I would also need a DSP...

The new flagship Funk 18.2 will also be unpowered, and Nathan has the outboard Amps + complex DSP/EQ units for it. Perhaps he could sell you the outboard DSP/EQ unit if you need something elaborate. Otherwise, some other pro amps models will have DSP/EQ built-in.

 

[jp_over]

Irv - what sub/s are you using that allow adjustment to multiple frequencies? For my Rythmik F12, the PEQ looks rather limited though I have never used it. I wonder if the built in EQ that comes with the crown pro amps would allow me to make 2 or 3 frequency adjustments (after taking measurements). I'm still learning about this measurement stuff so please bear with my likely dumb questions.

I've also e-mailed FW to get more info on their DSP.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Irv - what sub/s are you using that allow adjustment to multiple frequencies? For my Rythmik F12, the PEQ looks rather limited though I have never used it. I wonder if the built in EQ that comes with the crown pro amps would allow me to make 2 or 3 frequency adjustments (after taking measurements). I'm still learning about this measurement stuff so please bear with my likely dumb questions.

I've also e-mailed FW to get more info on their DSP.

I use a Velodyne DD18 Plus. The entire DD Plus series uses the same DSP. The Funk Audio 18.0 and 18.3 also feature a sophisticated DSP.